Ignorance or bliss?

[Bajo_cero2]

Actually the privatization of YPF has been a big success. Don't no much about the deal but even you are correct is was sold cheap it doesn't mean it was a bad idea. Oil production climbed dramatically until 2004 when the current government capped prices which discouraged production. According to you Argentina tried free market policies for a few years in the 90's and it didn't work and so it should never be tried again. This of course ignores the last 60 years in Argentina when government policies have been a complete disaster for the country. The current government is continuing the failed policies of the past. The government here is the problem not the solution. Sooner or later the reality is going to catch up with them. More trouble lies ahead it a matter of when not if.

"I guess this is the standard response when you don't have anything to say i.e., make some statement that doesn't make much sense."

The fact is that under this 40 years of "disasters" politics the debt was 9 billion.
During the dictatorship governmet it rised 4 times. During Menems twice. What a disaster is your you? Numbers talks.

Regards

 

[Bajo_cero2]

Bajo - the businesses I know of aren't closing because of the economic crisis. they're taking their toys and setting up shop elsewhere because of the inflation, enormous tax burden and general anti-business climate here. These are/were successful businesses but it has become cost-prohibitive to be here. So they're leaving.

And re hiring people here in an election year - thanks for the advice but my global clients don't really care that it's an election year here. Like I said, no harm to us, we're putting the project in the US instead. And maybe Argentina won't miss the tax dollars we pay and maybe the employees we would have hired don't care either. But if there are a lot of companies like us, than yes, it might start to matter.

But again, you're obviously convinced everything is great. I applaud your optimism. I don't share it - at all.

Well, reality is what it is, there is nothing I can do about it. And nobody can, sometimes when I read you seems like you expect about magic solutions.
I am not an optimistic person, but reality is that we should be worst.
Regards

 

[ghost]

I mean wealth per capita (per person), this is not the same to have 300 billions among 40 million than among 10 millions. Norway is a good example of how a country with low population becomes rich on the wealth per capita.
I am talking about micro economy.

http://www.zonaeconomica.com/producto-interno-bruto
See the map.

And you are talking about macroeconomy. Please don´t confuse macro and micro economy.



Well, our industry was destroyed by Menem´s government but it rised againg with this government. Now both, the farmers and the industry are doing very well.

Regards

OK, now I understand why you said you fell asleep in economics class. Don't feel bad I like attorneys they make great politicians.
Lets go straight to the bottom line. Argentina is a big boy, it elects it's own government representatives. Makes it's own laws. And sets its own economic policies. Right or wrong she sets her own course. If the the sleazy IMF offers money and Wall Street snakes pump bonds to produce cash and build the infrastructure and the elected government steals the money and defaults the country.it's not the fault of the IMF, the CIA, the FBI, the World Bank, Mosad, Mi6 or the evil Canadians. In the end it's the government that holds power at the determining moment. So please just stop blaming the rest of the world for every thing that happens to or in Argentina.
Or even worse.........[the usual retort] "the US is going to evaporate tomorrow because it........" If the US implodes tomorrow then the US will take the beating standing up and not try to blame it on the Canadians.

 

[rob_en_baires]

The ridiculous Economy Minister Amado Boudou says "inflation only affects the mid and upper class".

Trade Secretary Moreno says 2010 will experience only a 10/11% increase and that the Government economic mouthpiece Indec has the "The one" real way of measuring inflation (not the World wide standard).

Really, are the Argentinos y Argentinas (CFK) that ignorant?? Or are they just living in a state of Government propaganda bliss??

http://www.buenosairesherald.com/BreakingNews/View/50013

Any country with these idiots in office have reason to be very scared.

Are you Joking? You are talking about propaganda BLISS??!!
Funny.. YOU ARE FUNNY!
i cant stop seeing that guys,ringing that bell in wall street.WITH A BIIIG SMILE ( that shows, hey everything okay here!)while lots of people are Dieying withuot any chance of medical insurance,without HOUSES.
i don´t know your education level, but idiots , to call idiots people elect by democratic elections, you are calling idiot to all of us.. and that is not an elegant way to talk MY FRIEND.

Inflation its more than numbers on the supermarket .i recomend to read more than buenos aires herald...
you need to COMPARE news,and news papers.

 

[Bajo_cero2]

it's not the fault of the IMF, the CIA, the FBI, the World Bank, Mosad, Mi6 or the evil Canadians. In the end it's the government that holds power at the determining moment. So please just stop blaming the rest of the world for every thing that happens to or in Argentina.

I used to bored because I studied economy at Universidad de Belgrano, a neo one.

After that I started my studies in law and I studied micro-macro economy again and argentinian economy as well. I can tell you that I studied more in 2 subjects at UBA than in 2 years at UB.

Nobody blamed them, I just explained what happend if we follow FMI advices for example, or if we use neo school in our economy instead of Keyne´s, and I explained that because some people replied suggesting very simple and obvious neos solution as the only revelated true (as the bible reveals the word of god).

I already explained that those magic/naive solutions were already been used and were a disaster, the numbers about how our debt grew during neo governments speaks by itself.

And I did that just to help you to understand that there is another way to do things, and another way to analisys what is going on. Keynes was forgotten in the US (because there was no crisis) but is followed here. Why? Because Keyne´s theory is all about to rise an economy from bankruptcy.

I also explained why I think that 20% inflation is not big deal and Economy minister´s asserts were right.

So, stupid us if we make the mistake of using neo school again or if we listen a neo advice or if we leave the FMI to get involved in our economy again. Stupid us if we didn´t learn the lesson.

But I don´t expect to agree, I just justified with ideas and facts my asserts.

Regards

 

[ghost]

I used to bored because I studied economy at Universidad de Belgrano, a neo one.

After that I started my studies in law and I studied micro-macro economy again and argentinian economy as well. I can tell you that I studied more in 2 subjects at UBA than in 2 years at UB.

Nobody blamed them, I just explained what happend if we follow FMI advices for example, or if we use neo school in our economy instead of Keyne´s, and I explained that because some people replied suggesting very simple and obvious neos solution as the only revelated true (as the bible reveals the word of god).

I already explained that those magic/naive solutions were already been used and were a disaster, the number about how our debt grew speaks by itself.

And I did that just to help you to understand that there is another way to do things, and another way to analisys what is going on. Keynes was forgotten in the US (because there was no crisis) but is followed here. Why? Because Keyne´s theory is all about to rise an economy from bankruptcy.

I also explained why I think that 20% inflation is not big deal and Economy minister´s asserts were right.

So, stupid us if we make the mistake of using neo school again or if we listen a neo advice or if we leave the FMI to get involved in our economy again. Stupid us if we didn´t learn the lesson.

But I don´t expect to agree, I just justified with ideas and facts my asserts.

Regards

I don't care which economic model Argentina uses. There are many and they all work. I am saying that you can't blame someone elses model because your leadership crooks always manage to screw the model [whichever model you choose] and steal the capital. No model ever works under those conditions.
But thanks for sharing your insight. I appreciate the research and your opinion.

 

[jaredwb]

Are you Joking? You are talking about propaganda BLISS??!!
Funny.. YOU ARE FUNNY!
i cant stop seeing that guys,ringing that bell in wall street.WITH A BIIIG SMILE ( that shows, hey everything okay here!)while lots of people are Dieying withuot any chance of medical insurance,without HOUSES.
i don´t know your education level, but idiots , to call idiots people elect by democratic elections, you are calling idiot to all of us.. and that is not an elegant way to talk MY FRIEND.

Inflation its more than numbers on the supermarket .i recomend to read more than buenos aires herald...
you need to COMPARE news,and news papers.

Hmmm...you didn't elect the ministers, they were appointed by CFK (Nestor).

And IF I were to call the Argentine's idiots, I would use the fact they voted the Kirchners into office...and more than once!

I also read Clarin y La Nacion. They both ran the same story and quotes. I used The Herald because some on the forum don't read Spanish.

 

[SaraSara]

It is also interesting to read Perfil, an outspoken small paper, and Pagina 12, formerly an independent paper and know a mouthpiece of the Kirchner regime. But it is only for strong stomachs, as it is subservient to the point of being revolting.

As to Boudow's canard about inflation affecting only the middle classes, in the past two years the rent for a villa shack went up 97.4%, almost double the 51.5% increase seen in middle class areas. These figures are from a two-year survey conducted by a local university, and published in yesterday's papers.

For those fluent in Spanish:

"En cuanto a los costos de alquiler, los datos muestran que el costo promedio mensual de ocupar una vivienda en una villa pasó de $ 191 a $ 378 entre los años mencionados, lo que representa un alza del 97,4 por ciento. En las zonas con trazado urbano donde habitan familias de clase baja, el precio subió de $ 395 a $ 705 (un 78,5%), y en los barrios de clase media la suba fue del 51,5 por ciento. Así, el efecto inflacionario duplicó su incidencia en las familias con más carencias."

http://www.lanacion.com.ar/nota.asp?nota_id=1322694

 

[Bajo_cero2]

Hmmm...you didn't elect the ministers, they were appointed by CFK (Nestor).

And IF I were to call the Argentine's idiots, I would use the fact they voted the Kirchners into office...and more than once!

I also read Clarin y La Nacion. They both ran the same story and quotes. I used The Herald because some on the forum don't read Spanish.

Stupidity is the most abundant thing in the world.
There are many examples. We voted Menem twice, De la Rúa once, americans voted Bush twice. So what?

 

[jaredwb]

Stupidity is the most abundant thing in the world.
There are many examples. We voted Menem twice, De la Rúa once, americans voted Bush twice. So what?

Going back to my original thought, I was asking IF people were actually stupid enough to believe that inflation is as "low" as the Govt says it is. CLEARLY, from some of the posts, there are people that are actually that stupid (which explains a lot).

Still, I will give concede your point, stupidity is abundant everywhere.