In defense of tourists

[mini]

However, I would imagine that if those countries saw a huge influx of immigrants who were as economically and educational disadvantaged as many Latinos in Mexico and Central America are, the governments would provide services to ensure their integration into the community.

Well you'll be surprised then that they don't provide this. They do provide language and integration classed though. You know those "socialist" countries, Gasp!

And as I stated before, most countries translate documents for foreigners, such as tourists. Should the immigration forms tourists fill out on the plane just be in Chinese in China, Russian in Russia, Norwegian in Norway, and so on?

Are we talking about tourists or immigrants?

I'm not saying they should not learn English. I'm not saying that at all. What I am saying is that learning English and emigrating to a country is a process, a transition. We should know this better than anyone else, as most of us have encountered culture and language issues in Argentina. Therefore, providing a driver examination in Spanish, Chinese, and other languages which many immigrants in the U.S. tend to speak is helpful in that process. Also, allowing lawmakers who are bilingual to discuss important issues in a foreign language if they desire to do so is also helpful in that process. ElQueso, et al. can refer to it as "coddling," but I think of it as being inclusive.

- Kenneth Davis

Your little quote is irrelevant to this issue. "Disdain for all things foreign". Give me a break. Just because I don't agree with you doesn't mean 1. I don't know about this issue. I know it very well. Probably better than you, and 2. that I'm xenophobic. It's laughable actually.

 

[ElQueso]

What do you say to an undocumented Mexican man with no schooling whatsoever who works 40+ hours a week in a restaurant kitchen making less than the federal minimum wage (7.25)?

I would say go home. I would say he's there breaking the law. I would say that the US government has absolutely no worry whatsoever to ensure that this man knows what's going on with the government.

And BTW - I used to work 50 hours and more a week when I went to school. If he really wants to learn the language - he can. But as I've said repeatedly (and somehow you never quite seem to note) there is a group of Latinos in the States (particularly in the southwestern states) who are very insular and don't WANT to learn English. In fact, they love the fact that they have such a strong lobby that will get the US government to do things for them that most countries in this world WILL NOT DO.

60-70 hours a week is too much for this poor guy to ask, in total? Tough shit. I work as hard or harder than that now.

 

[sesamosinsal]

I'm confused, mini. You say that these countries you've visited (why don't you name them?) don't provide services to ensure immigrants' integration into the community, but then you say that they "provide language and integration classed [sic] though." So wait, do they ensure immigrants' integration or not?

With regard documents being provided to people in multiple languages, it's irrelevant to whom they're provided. If governments can't provide driver license test forms or election forms in a foreign language, should they be providing forms to anyone in any other language than the official/dominant language? This question is relevant to our discussion because most people who post to this forum probably would have had some difficulties filling out the forms to enter Argentina if they were not provided an English translation. And even if we're not talking about us and Argentina, most Americans when they travel to foreign countries rely on these translations. How is it fair to criticize the coddling in the U.S. when so many of us rely on it when we travel abroad to countries where English is not the official/dominant language?

And yeah, you've made it pretty evident that you know more about this issue than me.

 

[SaraSara]

Why are people in this forum so reluctant to part with the slightest bit of information about themselves? Mini peppered me with questions about where I lived, when, and for how long, but refused to say anything about her/himself.

I'm new to forums, so perhaps Mini knows something I don't know about self-preservation.

 

[HowardinBA]

sara,,,reveal ONLY what you want to reveal..you always give your honest opinion,so don,t get too deeply involved with the response..it,s only a forum at the end of the day..suerte

 

[SaraSara]

Thanks for the warning, Howard. Thing is, I've nothing to hide, but don't enjoy being pumped for answers without receiving a few in exchange.

 

[Liam3494]

WHilst on teh subjext, I used to live in England for many years. There are many immigrant communities in England, and in my days, it was very common to see documents translated into Urdu, Hindi, and other languages from the Indian Sub-Continent where many of the immigrants came from.

In my own country, Ireland, in recent years, even in my own job, I work for the Tax Authorities, we had documents published in Polish, due to many immigrants coming to Ireland who required assistance.

This doesn't take away the need for immigrants to learn the language of the country they arrive in, but it certainly helps in the transitional period as they assimilate into society in their new homes.

As an aside on how "welcoming" the US is to immigrants, well I was refused a Visa to go and live there. Now strangely, English is my first language, I have a degree in Business, was in excellent health, and had a bit of capital to keep me going for a while - I didn't meet their requirements, as they really only wanted "Mexicans" and "Afghans" who would work for peanuts...... Lets be honest, if the US kicked out every illegal in Texas, California etc., there would be trouble - From the WASP's who wouldn't have a maid, gardener, nanny etc.....!!!

Back to my Spanish Class

 

[EliA]

I checked back in after a two day absence from the internet and was surprised to see that this thread has generated so much response. I'm not even sure if it's on topic anymore or not and I honestly stopped reading on page 7 but by far my favorite quote so far is:

I have yet to see any "Speak Spanish!" or "Use the voseo!" bumper stickers in Argentina. But I'll keep an eye out for them.

I actually laughed out loud - so true and so apt!

Thank you all for bringing thoughtfulness and a relative minimum of snarkiness to this topic.

 

[tangobob]

I actually laughed out loud - so true and so apt!

Thank you all for bringing thoughtfulness and a relative minimum of snarkiness to this topic.

"snarkiness?" SPEAK ENGLISH

 

[mini]

I'm confused, mini. You say that these countries you've visited (why don't you name them?) don't provide services to ensure immigrants' integration into the community, but then you say that they "provide language and integration classes [sic] though." So wait, do they ensure immigrants' integration or not?

Sorry for the typo.

I said I lived in these countries not visited. Proving language & integration classes is not the same as having all government information provided in foreign languages. & I've already say, I think the US should provide MORE integration services.