Is BsAs that dangerous??

perry said:
Safety is relative but I do believe that there is more chance of being killed by a serial killer in the USA and Australia than Argentina.

I think El Petiso Orejudo is Argentina's only serial killer (outside of a military administration) and he did his thing 100 years ago. Well done Argentina, may you have many more non military administration serial killer free years.
 
What we have learned from this thread:

1. Anecdotes are everything

and hence...

2. The axis of sin, sleaze and crime that extends north of the city and includes (but is not restricted to) Palermo, Recoleta, Belgrano and San Isidro should be avoided at all costs!
- Texas woman who had Rolex ripped off her wrist on Santa Fe in the middle of the day
- Witnessed two guys on a motorcycle pull up to a car at a red light on Libertador around 2pm. Guy on back gets off, smashes his head through back window of a woman's car, grabs her purse, hops back on motorcycle and takes off.
- Witnessed a guy smash through a car window mid-day in Palermo Soho, grab something and take off running.
- Numerous incidents of pick pocketing (4-5). Possible attempt at a pick pocketing on me by a trannie one night, but I pretty much ran out of there
-I've only been robbed in Recoleta.
-Several restaurants have been robbed in Palermo.
-Last year there was a man going around Recoleta entering apartment buildings and stores and raping women.
-When I used to live in Recoleta my building was broken into several times and the robbers sent one young woman to the hospital.
-Oh, I did get the bird poop scam once near Japanese Gardens
-the hostage-taking in Palermo last week, etc.
-The friend who was stabbed in his ear while they stole his watch on Libertador by the hipodromo at 8:00 in the evening.
-The friend who had her house broken into near San Isidro and was held at gunpoint for 12 hours until her husband came home and went to the ATM to pay them off.
-The friends who were jumped on Juan B Justo and beaten up at 5:00 in the afternoon.
-The friend who had her car stolen from Matienzo and Liberatdor while visiting me.
-The friend who was stabbed in the leg when they attempted to steal her bike at 3:00 on a Sunday afternoon in San Isidro.
 
I lived in central London, in W9. Once a week, we danced at the Dover Street Jazz Club in Mayfair 3-4 km from our apartment. When we couldn’t find a cab at 2:00 am, we walked home from there. We also took midnight walks from home lasting 2 hours through St. John's Wood, avoiding the area of Kilburn which was rough and dicey at night. I'll never forget those walks, how buildings, roads and leaves glisten in the dark after rain -so redolent of 'film noir' and British spy films of the '60's; the 72 Arabic restaurants and 20+ shisha houses up and down Edgeware Rd. punctuated by eyebrow-threaders’ salons and travel agents offering flights to cities I couldn't even place on a map; and looking into the windows of Mayfair designers' shops to study in peace those cuts, that refined stitching, all the detail put into beautiful items that I can't afford but appreciate.

Our only rule was, "if it feels right in our situation (for us, a life of travelling and living in different places, and having lived in England 13 years), try it. If you don't, if you're still a foreigner, don't speak the language fluently, or notice that you're biting your lip about a locale being proposed for a saunter, or if the idea/suggestion makes you or your partner frown or tighten your shoulders for a sec or drum your fingers, or you feel challenged, those are the safety devices you've built to address your safety needs so don't do it! One (unproved, too general) rule may not work for everyone or even anyone. Personal security practices must relate to one's own vulnerabilities. Too often, a travel rule reflects or advances an ingrained cultural bias learned at home, classism, or simply applies a moral puritanism. Thus, it's important to ask when you hear one, "Would following this rule truly make me safer or is its only value to make me think that if I do this or that, I am?” If the latter only, it still might restore your confidence while walking streets. It is this confidence and awareness that might make a thief think twice before choosing you unless you're at the same time doing something very stupid. As one older tangurero said, to be safe in BA all HE needs is his good tango walk. He knows his own vulnerabilities and addressed them without going overboard or relying upon magical formulae.

While we were walking London's streets nightly, a lady was raped one block from us on a tony corner amid the most charming cluster of local shops, cozy terraced cafes and white Georgian residences....at 4pm on a Tuesday. She lived there, was doing nothing stupid. She may not have been raped had she walked areas of Hackney or Southall which are known to be dangerous especially at night. We really have to admit that danger couldn't care less about our rules, and that adopting one that only appeases our fear is no guarantee of personal safety. Each time we acknowledge that fact, it's our job to reinstate our confidence so that we can go out and enjoy where we are rather than spread our fear to others. Reporting horrific incidents in BA and warning people of risks are valuable aids to travelers. Ditto comparing incidents in one city with another’s. But it’s emotionally and socially irresponsible to tell people that a city is intrinsically and perpetually dangerous just because we’ve not developed ways to deal with our own fear. That’s like spreading AIDS on purpose or recklessly because you resent your or your friend’s having contracted it. If you feel the need to blame someone while you deal with your resentment which is natural, blame the perpetrator or what you did wrong if that’s appropriate, not where the perpetrator resides among millions of caring people.

I use the same protection, my gut sense, in BA, Malaysia and Firenze by adjusting my internal fear warnings to prevailing conditions where I'm going. I adjust these again when I arrive at and sense a new place or one I've not visited for years. I will force myself to keep walking if I should discover mustard on my clothes in BA or Spain. (In Toronto, it's been watered-down faeces inside buildings' elevators as people are returning to work from their lunch break.)

Thank god there are people on this thread who have given their time to combat the fear-spreading about BA. Were it not for them, I'd be calling my prospective BA landlord right now and asking, "Tell me, tell me, has BA really become this dangerous in the last 15 months?!!!" I would have made a fool of myself doing that -made him think that I'm just another inexperienced tourist which until now he knows I'm not. I'm relieved too that I didn't unnecessarily cause him to worry about us. So a big hug to those who balanced the picture while acknowledging the occurrence of crime. They reminded me of how safe I always am in BA despite what’s in the news.
 
pauper said:
What we have learned from this thread:

1. Anecdotes are everything

and hence...

2. The axis of sin, sleaze and crime that extends north of the city and includes (but is not restricted to) Palermo, Recoleta, Belgrano and San Isidro should be avoided at all costs!

Well, I had a friend robbed at gun point in San Telmo last night so add that to the list of barrios of sin, sleaze and crime...

Actually Sorrel has an interesting article for the Herald today http://buenosairesherald.com/BreakingNews/View/42831 and according to the article, when it comes to street crime ".. Palermo, Flores, Recoleta, Belgrano and San Nicolás are the most targeted neighbourhoods in the capital..."

So the anecdotal evidence does bear out.
 
citygirl said:
Well, I had a friend robbed at gun point in San Telmo last night so add that to the list of barrios of sin, sleaze and crime...

Added!

If you have any friends who haven't been victims of crime then I'd imagine they'd be looking to hand in their resignation out of fear.
 
Well, actually luckily (unluckily:confused:), we've all had our turn so I don' think there is anyone left:rolleyes:

I do want to reiterate for the umpteenth time, I don't think BsAs is the most dangerous city in the world. I certainly have been to cities where I felt less safe/comfortable. As I've stated a bazillion times, most of the crime I've encountered has been of the petty variety. Not anything that causes me to live in fear, just to take slightly higher levels of precautions.

YMMV.
 
citygirl said:
Actually Sorrel has an interesting article for the Herald today http://buenosairesherald.com/BreakingNews/View/42831 and according to the article, when it comes to street crime ".. Palermo, Flores, Recoleta, Belgrano and San Nicolás are the most targeted neighbourhoods in the capital..."

So the anecdotal evidence does bear out.

That's for motochorro incidents, though it doesn't say if its raw data or modified to reflect the size, population or number of banks in each barrio. It's an interesting point about cash transactions - when does the fear of being robbed exceed the fear of the banks? I think I would be more than a little worried walking out of a bank with any of the amounts of cash mentioned in the article in just about any city. I guess I'm lucky as my bank account has never seen numbers like those before.
 
citygirl said:
when it comes to street crime ".. Palermo, Flores, Recoleta, Belgrano and San Nicolás are the most targeted neighbourhoods in the capital..."
And that is because these areas of full of easy targets; Palermo especially. It really should be no surprise that if 75,000 (or whatever the estimate is) expats, who are much wealthier than the average porteno, invade a city and live almost exclusively in a concentrated area, it stands to reason that the area will be a major property crime area. BsAs is a 15 million person city that is mostly inhabited by people who scramble very hard to put food on the table; something almost every expat has no concept of and worse yet lives a lifestyle of relative conspicuous consumption along side the poor portenos. We are in the minority in this city, and Argentines do not worship the wealthy (like US people do), in fact Argentines have been known to actively take up arms against the wealthy (the Montoneros and the ERP). If you want to avoid the property crimes, become a porteno, instead of a norte-americano living a Sex in the City lifestyle in a tiny section of a massive and poor city. If you tried this same lifestyle in Rio, you would be dead by now, so count your blessings.
 
perry said:
While I agree that crime ( robberies) are more common here than the USA or Australia I also never hear of serial killers in Argentina .

I highly doubt that if there was/is one you would ever hear about it. Chances of a serial killer being found here are slim to none. Unless a cop catches you with a house full of bodies the odds are slim of them tracking down anyone who dumped a body. I was watching some USA crime show on tv with a friend that has all that forensics crap (not CSI, but the real stuff) and she was amazed at the lengths that the cops go through to find killers. She (and a few others) basically told me unless the cops see you with the knife in your hand after stabbing some one you won't get caught.

You really think anyone here is gonna run DNA tests on samples they find on dead people?? LMAO!
 
fred mertz said:
Have you considered studying Spanish in Spain? Barcelona is probably the most beautiful city in Europe or even the world. They speak REAL Spanish (and Catalan, but that's another story) There are many schools and individuals to teach you. Probably much safer than BA. Madrid and Valencia are other good choices. Spain is also closer to Poland.

Statistically you are more prone to get robbed in Barcelona than here. And by personal experience I can tell you it is much worse over there.

And the Catalan accent is probably the ugliest Spanish accent there is.
 
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