Is BsAs that dangerous??

You might delineate your 30 block crime zone so I can wander elsewhere. So far I haven't experienced a crime (does bird poop count?), nor do I know personally anyone who has, so clearly we have been outside the zone, and I want to keep it that way.
 
syngirl said:
lol -- that may be true, but let's face it, most tourists coming here don't even realise that the city is more than Palermo, Recoleta, San Telmo, and Puerto Madero.

That's not at all what you were talking about, you responded to somebody who was talking about crime in BA and referencing the poverty and the population of the city. Trust me the administrative boundaries of GCBA intimidate criminals about as much as the boundary between Villa Crespo and Chacarita and as I said you have a working day influx into CABA of 6 million people from the periphery. In the context of the argument, the boundaries of CABA are irrelevant, you are being disingenuous.

syngirl said:
Considering most of the crimes on the news the past week took place in Palermo and Recoleta, we could essentially be talkinag about X number of violent crimes in an area of probably what, 1 million people? I have no idea what the pop. of those barrios alone would be.

You are talking about a handful of crimes (and only those which grabbed the headlines) over the period of a week and trying to extrapolate that into some meaningful figure? If I thought lol was one of the finer instruments of debate as many here do I would lol freely at this point.

syngirl said:
My point is that most of the crime makng the news headlines lately is taking place well inside the General Paz, well inside the 3 million population mark. Apart from the shooting in La Plata I think all the crime I listed were inside G Paz (I'd have to go back and look).

Have you not noticed? The news always is dominated by events inside G Paz (and the Riachuelo, and yes I agree with the inherent northern bias you hint at too) not just crime, (what's going on with the provincial government of, say, Missiones? Christ only knows, political coverage of provincial affairs in national media is terrible, unless they have footage of a couple of people thumping each other). Do you really think nothing happened in Gran Buenos Aires over that period? In the villas? Of course not - there is a huge bias towards CABA and within the city limits towards 'proper' neighbourhoods and 'proper' people (remember all the crime headlines where the occupation of the victim is continually referenced? the crime of 'the engineer' or of 'the architect'?) this provokes more outrage in people and so the news channels go with it. For the unemployed single mother in Valentín Alsina to become the big sustained crime headline there has to be something extra special about the case.

Here's an example: just before the shooting of Carolina Píparo and the death of her baby another baby (25 days old) died of pneumonia due to exposure to the extreme cold at the time beneath the autopista 25 de Mayo in Constitucion where he lived with his family. I doubt most of you even knew about this, I didn't see a single story on the TV. Some lives (and deaths) are more newsworthy than others and there are a variety of political and social reasons for this.

syngirl said:
In fact most crimes against my friends have taken place probably within a 30 block radius.

That's because you all live in the same part of the city, and when you make Argentine friends many will of course be from the same area. Someone mentioned 75,000 expats - I find this hard to believe but what percentage would you guess live within the tourist ghettos of Palermo, Recoleta and Belgrano? 70? 80? I think it would be somewhere around that figure.
 
I find it interesting that people refer to Belgrano as a "tourist ghetto". I personally don't hear/see a lot of tourists in Belgrano. Most people I know that live in Belgrano were born and raised there - tons of families.

I think someone did a poll on here asking where people live and it was pretty widespread. Although I will say most people I meet seem to be (in descending order of popularity): Palermo (hollywood, soho, viejo), Las Canitas (which yes, technically is part of Palermo but I'm splitting it out), Recoleta, San Telmo and Puerto Madero.

ETA - yes, here is the poll: http://baexpats.org/expat-life/9966-poll-where-do-you-live.html
 
I find it interesting that people refer to Belgrano as a "tourist ghetto".
I'm using the term a little tongue in cheek as it popped up here on someone else's post.

Most people I know that live in Belgrano were born and raised there - tons of families.
I would assume the majority of people in any barrio would not be expats and while I don't have a device to weigh the number of families in any barrio, I think also you would find tons wherever you go.

I think someone did a poll on here asking where people live and it was pretty widespread.
Yes, Belgrano came in third behind Palermo and Recoleta out of the specifically designated barrios (there was an 'other' category that came second but as this accounted for I guess 40 odd barrios it is somewhat useless).
 
citygirl said:
I find it interesting that people refer to Belgrano as a "tourist ghetto". I personally don't hear/see a lot of tourists in Belgrano. Most people I know that live in Belgrano were born and raised there - tons of families.

I think someone did a poll on here asking where people live and it was pretty widespread. Although I will say most people I meet seem to be (in descending order of popularity): Palermo (hollywood, soho, viejo), Las Canitas (which yes, technically is part of Palermo but I'm splitting it out), Recoleta, San Telmo and Puerto Madero.

ETA - yes, here is the poll: http://baexpats.org/expat-life/9966-poll-where-do-you-live.html

I also think it's interesting that people refer to the whole of Palermo as a tourist ghetto even though it's a pretty big ass neighborhood. Not to mention the fact that in my three months of living in this part of Palermo I have never encountered a "tourist" on my way to work, the gym, grocery store, apartment complex, the tintoreria....not once. Sure the area around Plaza Serrano is definitely a touristy area......but on my side of Scalibrini I have only run into Argentines and their families, not foreigners.
 
I'm going to contribute my two cents to this conversation. I have personally been accosted several times here, and have known several people (both locals and foreigners) who have been beaten/mugged. Thankfully it is mostly petty crime, and that there isn't a big gun/gang culture, or one of hard drugs. I know that they have paco here, but at least they don't have crystal meth or a slew of other hard drugs. Hopefully those don't make their way in.

When I moved here in '06 I started out in Recoleta (a safe, common choice for a newbie in the city). Prior to starting an internship here I went to Mataderos to scope out the internship location in the early afternoon. Not two minutes off the bus my partner and I got jumped by a couple of thugs with knives in their pants coming from a villa. We were able to fight them off and run to a nearby copshop. The stationed cop was perplexed and asked us what in the world we were doing out there. Chalk that one up to a shitty company who would send a girl out there by herself everyday. Needless to say I asked for a reassignment. I got placed in Boca, and never had an issue there, but also never wandered around with anything but papers in my hands according to the express warnings of the women who ran the defensoria. I did get to tour the "do not enter" parts of Boca with one of the therapists, and see where the child prostutition and other unseemly things happen there. Also in La Boca when visiting a friend, I stopped in a kiosk and the owner told me to leave the area, as I was not going to be safe there (it was near dark). After I returned from a month in Santiago (no muggings or any problems there) I moved to San Telmo. Shortly after moving in someone (a well dressed 'gentleman') entered our building, got into the elevator with a tenant and pulled a gun on her, then robbed her apartment. Nobody else in the building was affected.

One evening I was coming home from my internship (I carried a backpack with workout clothes, books, etc.) and we got motochorro'd (or however you'd use that as a verb)--held up at gunpoint by two women. I handed over my backpack when the woman cocked the gun. Whether the gun was real or not wasn't something I was interested in finding out. It was early evening in San Telmo on a busy street with streetlights, etc. Nobody did anything to help, and only once the women were back on the moto and gone did anybody approach us to offer help or condolances. :rolleyes:

So, feeling unsafe, we moved to Cañitas. There nothing happened to us directly, but we did witness a couple of occurrences with someone running with a stolen bag, or a woman crying in the street after being robbed. After six or so months we moved to Almagro where we lived for a couple of years, and our flatmate was robbed by the maid. I had two bikes stolen (from the street) while living there, and heard about some local cafés and restaurants being held up by groups of thugs with guns. Once had someone try to grab my bag from me while walking home (a few blocks away from my apartment) after a dinner out. Having gotten better at fighting off street criminals I kicked him in the crotch, my boy hit him in the head, and he gave up and ran away leaving me with a purse with a broken strap. I was pretty proud that I had the presence of mind to yell after him, "puta de mierda", but every time anything happens to me is an experience that left me shaken.

We now live in Caballito (casi Flores) for over a year, and haven't had anything happen to us out here, but that's not to say we haven't been in areas around here where we turned around and headed to somewhere with a safer vibe, or felt the need to leave a certain area before dark. Once while I was riding my bike to work I saw an old woman crying with a bleeding face talking to the police , she had clearly had been recently mugged (it was 9 in the morning). I've explored the vast majority of Capital and beyond (usually by bike), and for the most part haven't had problems. If I pass a group of potentially suspect people, I don't speak (especially not English). We also now carry pepper spray and a billy club--just in case. Thankfully we've never had to use either.

As many people have pointed out, sometimes it's the luck of the draw, sometimes someone is in the wrong place at the wrong time, sometimes they're doing something stupid, but sometimes there's nothing that you could have done to help or stop it. Operate with the best possible information available to you at the moment, keep your eyes open, and trust your gut instincts and you'll probably be just fine. I'm certainly not saying that this is the most dangerous city, as the definition of "danger" is particularly relevant to your personal experience and ability to cope. That said, Buenos Aires is definitely a city where you have got to watch your back. It's always a good idea to have cab fare in your pocket in the event that you need a quick escape.


***********************
ETA: Oh I almost forgot. We had a fire in our apartment in Almagro due to faulty electronics/wiring. The FIREMEN tried to steal every last belonging of value from us (including rifling through our drawers looking for hidden cash). Thankfully we arrived in time to stop them from stealing our stuff--but unfortunately didn't stop them from being pissed that they didn't score the loot and spreading vindictive rumors about us and our careless ways of starting fires (something about unattended burning candles on the floor during the day in the middle of summer--wtf) and endangering the whole neighborhood. After that experience I got the consensus that oh yeah, you must hide valuables and be careful when letting the police or fire fighters into your home. Great.
 
syngirl said:
You know those websites in the States that put a google tag marker for every crime.... here in Capital if we tried to use those I think the map would be obliterated by the red arrows...

Mr De Narvaez had one here, there was an amusing watch blog that followed it reporting on the more ridiculous inventions (I was stabbed with a rubber penis!) - it was probably more accurate as a spatial map of internet connections in the city. It wouldn't surprise me if Palermo had some of the highest levels of anything in the city, it's by some margin the largest barrio and one of the most densely populated. If this scares you then by all means check out Villa Riachuelo, I haven't heard of anything going on down there (according to your line of reasoning this means there must be nothing going on down there - even an ostrich would blush) and on Francisco's map, last time I checked there was a pleasing sparsity of little red arrows.
 
Moxon said:
I was stabbed with a rubber penis!
You were probably loitering around UBA Rojas with some creative-types. It's right across from BUTTMAN VIDEO and you were probably just lucky that you hadn't dropped any monedas on the sidewalk and were busy retrieving them when the stabbing occured.

IN OTHER NEWS-

A friend got his leather jacket stolen (among other things) on Friday night. Gunpoint. But kind of near Mexico & 9 de Julio to a couple of blocks in towards Defensa. (Don't know exact location.) But he was kind of asking for it being all blond and having just cut his longer shaggy-ish hair to a clean cropped British school boy cut. He's just lucky he didn't get buggered.
 
Okay, I'm starting to feel left out. What's wrong with me, anyway? Am I that indistinct, so lost in the gray zone?
 
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