Is Buenos Aires a Third World City?

[bigbadwolf]

I have to agree with the poster who said that Argentina has the peculiar distinction of being a country that turned from relatively developed to less developed.

It holds for Argentina. But now it also holds for the UK and USA, which have been deindustrialising. And cities like NYC and London definitely seem to be on a downhill slope with regard to infrastructure, housing stock, and disparities in wealth and income.

What would be the gold standard in urban development and modernity today? Singapore perhaps?

 

[steveinbsas]

Steve, I've never heard a Porteño brag about how much better Argentina is than Mexico but I've met a great many who have pointed out how very "European" Buenos Aires is! Your friends don't feel resentment when you point out how much better it is here because it would never occur to them that Mexico is in the same league. Now tell them how much better the US is and they might react differently! Among the Porteños that most expats hang out with - middle to upper middle class, largely university educated and white, the point of reference is not Latin America.

Sergio, I haven't heard any Porteños brag about Argentina being better then Mexico, either. The post I responded to was by another expat who presently spends six months a year in Mexico. My point is that Argentina in general and BA in particular, especially compared to Mexcio City, is a better and safer place to be an expat, especially with white skin.

I have spent enough time in Europe to know how inferior Argentina actually is to most members of the EU. I believe you have as well. N'est-ce pas ? Of course I do not share this point of view with my "middle to upper middle class, largely university educated and white" Porteño friends.

My Mexican friends didn't think much of the Argentines, especially the gypsy types that invaded Sayulita every winter to sell cheap jewelry in the street. It was great fun to watch their protest demonstration (Argentine style with drums) after the "town fathers" moved them from the center square to a somewhat distant street. The police and the townspeople watched politely, but as any form of political activity by foreigners in Mexico is illegal, they were deported the following day.

 

[ssr]

@bigbadwolf:

A recession (or even a depression) in the US is not going to turn it into a "less developed" nation. Sure, some serious corrections need to take place in the US (and elsewhere) and the global "shadow" banking system needs some regulating, but you are greatly underestimating the wealth, power and spirit of the United States.

And, yes, New York and London are expensive, and everyone lives in teeny-tiny apartments, but they are hardly on a downhill slope. The best and the brightest will continue to flock to these global hubs for the tremendous opportunities that they offer.

Here's a link that someone posted earlier in this thread:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_class_city

The only two cities in the highest class of "World City" and the top two cities in Foreign Policy's ranking of "[t]he world’s biggest, most interconnected cities [that] help set global agendas, weather transnational dangers, and serve as the hubs of global integration": New York and London.

I do hear that Singapore is fantastic, though. Orderly and spotlessly clean. If some Porteño schmuck let his dog poop on the sidewalk and didn't clean it up over in Singapore, he'd get his ass caned. Really wish they'd consider doing that here...

 

[BlahBlah]

Handing out a fine would be enough.

I do think that the US is losing it's global positing in the industralized world, but the US is a leading country in agriculture, R&D and service.

Maybe they can get there industry back on there feet but I personally doubt it.

Either way the next 3 to 5 years will determine the faith of the US.

 

[Ries]

There is no black market for coins- nobody will pay you more than face value for them.
50 centavos is worth 50 centavos. Every time.

There is hoarding of coins, but that is totally different.

The coin thing is interesting- I am told its not a problem outside of Buenos Aires- and that leads me to believe the collectivos are the main cause.
There has been some speculation that people are selling them for their base metal value, but I am dubious. It would cost more to process most of them than the small amount they may be worth over face value, and world metal prices fluctuate too rapidly for this to be a very viable business. Plus, its illegal.

I have heard the collectivos skim cash, and dont report their true income for tax purposes, which I am sure is true- hence, they like the coins, as opposed to a card. However, the card machines are coming to collectivos. The date keeps getting pushed back- last I heard was December, and, in true argentine style, I am sure it wont be done on time.
But eventually, the collectivos will have card reader machines, just like the turnstyles on the subte, and that should alleviate the coin shortage.

 

[katti]

but I never mention how much more I love Paris than BA. I don't compare BA to Paris, either. There are far more differences than similarities between the two cities.

Steve, I cannot help but notice that you would prefer to live in Paris I know Paris is a very nice city to visit, but to live??? You ? An American??
You should know that Paris is quite full of Parisians, and they are not so fond of Americans -! Yes the food is better, the musea, exhibitions, the beauty of the city, but the PEOPLE??? I advise you to stay in BA and visit Paris once in a while and keep away from the Parisians!
PS I hope there are no Parisians on this forum and if there are, i don't want to offend them! (I do have friends in Paris) Sorry!! Excusez moi!

 

[BlahBlah]

There is no black market for coins- nobody will pay you more than face value for them.
50 centavos is worth 50 centavos. Every time.

People don't stop to amaze me

 

[bigbadwolf]

A recession (or even a depression) in the US is not going to turn it into a "less developed" nation. Sure, some serious corrections need to take place in the US (and elsewhere) and the global "shadow" banking system needs some regulating, but you are greatly underestimating the wealth, power and spirit of the United States.

And, yes, New York and London are expensive, and everyone lives in teeny-tiny apartments, but they are hardly on a downhill slope. The best and the brightest will continue to flock to these global hubs for the tremendous opportunities that they offer.

I'm straying from the topic but the US is continuing to hemorrhage manufacturing jobs -- and it has been losing such jobs for 30 years. At the moment the US auto industry -- what's left of it -- is going to be restructured and reduced. There are two major industries in the world -- automobiles and armaments -- and the US seems to be losing its indigenous auto sector. in sector after sector it has lost ground over the decades.

Technically speaking, if you factor in SS and Medicare liabilities, the country is technically broke.

In the surveys of the most attractive cities, the ones that appear on the lists are usually places like Geneva, Copenhagen, Vienna, Berlin, Stockholm, and Vancouver. Not London and NYC. Nor does any US city now make the list.

 

[mini]

There is no black market for coins- nobody will pay you more than face value for them.
50 centavos is worth 50 centavos. Every time.

I'm afraid there is more to the story. Some bus companies sell their coins for 5-10% above the face value of the coins.

 

[Recoleta Carolina]

I live 6months in Ajijic Mexico and 6months in Buenos Aires in the San Telmo area. Quite frankly, BsAs. has Mexico beat by miles.....And the biggest plus for BsAs. is safety. USA´s neighbor to the south has eons to go before it catches up with Argentina. Yes in the surrounding areas of Argentina...one can be hard pressed to find paved roads....But the people, the culture and the safety issue makes Argentina a gem of a third world country...

Safety?? You think that this is a safe city? You must be joking.