Is it all down to lack of respect???

[John.St]

People, you are a bit off about employment, which isn't bad for itself if you are expats, but its kind of alarming coming from people that managed a biz here.

"Relacion de dependencia" (full time employees) dont have a contract. They are hired.
Contracts are usually reserved for providers, not employees.

Do I understand this correctly:
In Argentina employer and employee do not sign a contract, which in details clearly states all rights and obligations and refer to a law of employment?

 

[John.St]

Nice turn of the good old Kantian ethics, St. John
"Nor harming others" may be the catch here, as it seems a rather huge territory.

I should have qualified it to:
'treat me well or leave me alone, and you can behave as you please, as long as you don't deliberately harm others. Sh*t on me or attack someone who is defenseless, and I'll kick you, even if you are lying down'.

 

[John.St]

Fifs2 is right, the woman should not have left without a notice. ... It's about opportunism, more likely. Which, by the way, I've seen all over the world. And that's where I disagree with you, Fifs2. ... you're pinning it down to Argentine ethics. ...

Where I come from and at least within a couple of thousand kilometer from there, she definitely would not have gotten away with it without a basis in serious health problems, and certainly not just because she had found a new, and perhaps better paid, job - the new job would have been cancelled when her new employer found out (who needs an employee of any description who cannot be trusted?). Even her own teacher's union would have condemned her for unprofessional behavior.

 

[John.St]

Well compared to the vitriol spouting out of AKBill (with hangover no doubt) and his side-kick bebero you qualify for sainthood!

Well, what do you think the 'St' stands for?

As in Alberto Yañez, Dr. ...

 

[bebero]

Just to clarify when you're talking about contracts, I'm guessing you you are thinking/talking about SOWs and MSAs, etc. However an employment agreement is what we're talking about here. And yes, direct employees sign this.

No, most of them don't. I'm now a freelancer but I have extensive knowledge about many companies (big and small, from Telefonica to family-owned business) and they don't. You agree on your salary, then they register you with AFIP and that's it.

I still can't believe how incredibly selfish everyone is being. The teacher was not gonna find another job just like that but the school can hire someone else in a second. For me, that settles it. One has to pursue happiness, and if a different job helps, go for it. That mentality of benefiting the ones that have more is disgusting-

 

[Guillo]

I find it very very difficult to believe that full time employees don't have any sort of contract. How else do they ensure that the get paid?

Employees have full protection just by being hired, no need to sign a contract for that. The rights are given by law, they can't be signed away in a contract,

 

[John.St]

Employees have full protection just by being hired, no need to sign a contract for that. The rights are given by law, they can't be signed away in a contract,

But without a contract, how can they prove that they are hired at all?

How can they prove what their salary is?

How can they prevent a sleezy employer to claim they were unpaid volounteers and kick them out after one month?

Without proof it is of no importance what the law says.

If proof isn't needed, I can just claim I have been working for you and demand my proper payment.

And in a contract you don't sign your rights away, on the contrary any proper contracts refers to the law (which cannot be superceeded) and adds specifics like salary, which you don't find in any law.

 

[Guillo]

Guillo - sigh.. we've been down this road before. I'm aware of what it takes to run a business in Argentina. I had no idea what the poster was writing about since the sentence structure was not exactly clear.

Just to clarify when you're talking about contracts, I'm guessing you you are thinking/talking about SOWs and MSAs, etc. However an employment agreement is what we're talking about here. And yes, direct employees sign this. For instance, my employees in Argentina sign a legal offer letter which outlines title, start date, salary, benefits, etc. Included in this is the clause which states that the letter functions as a sole and complete agreement between employee and employer. That is what I'm referring to.

Any company that hires employees in blanco should put this in a legal offer letter. It's protection for all parties.

Again, there is no need for a contract down here. I've been working in this country for 20 years and never had one.
The letter you made your employees sign is totally worthless. You can't sidestep work law. What you think it's your sole agreement, won't withstand any analysis if it doesn't cover 100% of the rights given by law. Those rights can't be signed away in a contract. Same with your obligations as employer. No way to avoid it.
No wonder you ended up with a lawsuit from a worker if you think you don't need to follow the local laws.

 

[Guillo]

But without a contract, how can they prove that they are hired at all?

How can they prove what their salary is?

How can they prevent a sleezy employer to claim they were unpaid volounteers and cick them out after one month?

Without proof it is of no importance what the law says.

If proof isn't needed, I can just claim I have been working for you and demand my proper payment.

When you hire someone you register the workers in several places. Thats enough proof of legal employment.
And, if I have elements to show I worked for you, you are in trouble. Something like a witness is usually good enough as a proof of employment.

 

[bebero]

But without a contract, how can they prove that they are hired at all?

How can they prove what their salary is?

Why would someone agree on paying someone something and then don't? They would have to change employees every month and who wants that and how is that good for a business?

How can they prevent a sleezy employer to claim they were unpaid volounteers and cick them out after one month?

It's not legal to be an unpaid volunteer in a company and again who wants to change employes?

Without proof it is of no importance what the law says.

If proof isn't needed, I can just claim I have been working for you and demand my proper payment.

Who said there's no proof? Every employee is registered in AFIP and un-registered when they stop working.