Is it all that bad? Please say it isn't!

[El chabon]

Bebero... would you agree that the local governments/police statistics on crime..are more than likely...wrong?
Could I get you to think out of the box far enough...to feel comfortable in the theory that when a whole society (100% BsAs) does not feel comfortable wearing anything of value (bling) having a computer, phone, car keys or car in the open... and has gates on all their windows...for often the 1st 6 or 7 floors of a building...sometimes even higher... that maybe....just maybe... 50% have been victim of crime? Thats really the point ...isn't it?

This is done so that small kids dont fall of THE balcony

 

[trennod]

I have only been living here for 3.5 months, although my GF is Argentine (however not from Bs As, from the north) and spent some time travelling here last year. Therefore, obviously there are a lot more expats out here which have more knowledge and in better positions to offer advice than me, however I will still share my thoughts.

I am 25, received a transfer here as well, and although receiving an initial relocation allowance, I am earning pesos. I will be here for a total of 2 years. My main reasons for being here are apart from love, for the cultural experience, personal challenge and to improve my spanish. Its something I would have wanted to do, but without the GF motivation, probably wouldnt have taken the final step. Perhaps BA is more suited to someone of my age, but I stilll think it has plenty to offer others also.

To the OP, all my thoughts are given with the knowledge that your time may be for 4 years. I think personally and for your family, this could be a great opportunity. For you and your partner and your kids to experience another culture and to learn another language, I would have thought it to be great development for all personally and for their futures. If I could turn back time as a kid I would have loved to have been in that situation (maybe not at the time but with hindsight!).

On top of that there is the travelling experience, Argentina is a country of beautiful landscape and there are many great places to see both north and south and I would think being here for 4 years would give you that opportunity. The wider South America offers much also.

If you have a good income, like others have said it will make a significant difference. Despite inflation and rising prices, apart from electronics, clothes and your home items, things are still relatively cheaper here, in comparison to other big world cities and thus you will have a higher standard of living. You may be able to afford a maid (I wish I could!) for the waiting time (supermarkets etc). The long lines are extremely frustrating. However, be prepapred to pay more for new appliances, whitegoods etc (as we have found). If you are willing to brave the Porteño drivers and have a car, that would also be handy.

In relation to security and safety, if you live in a what is considered a more pleasant neighbourhood and are cautious, perhaps you can avoid a lot of the incidents that seem to happen. Having said that, for safety I would think perhaps Madrid or Barcelona is a fair comparison (however pickpocketing and petty theft is less common here from what I know)? Most of the crime is petty theft. Personally, I have never felt unsafe walking around Palermo, Belgrano, or Recoleta at night in Capital. I have never had an incident in my 5 months in total both in Buenos Aires and the north of Argentina.

Argentines are mostly friendly (and definitely outgoing). The common person however is not as trustworthy and not as trusting. This is something to keep in mind and something that at times has been challenging.

There are plenty of opportunities for sports here and the weather is good particularly for outdoor activities (if you dont mind the heat in summer). There are great parks and they are good for families. Accessibility is good - plenty of restaurants, cafes and shops are open late.

Getting things done here is more difficult here and at times it can be frustrating (it is after all a 3rd world country), but at the end of the day if your time is fixed and you can live very comfortably financially, I think all in all it would be a good experience (and a good challenge).

 

[citygirl]

4 years is not a lifetime and if you have a job that will provide you financial freedom, I would strongly encourage you to come. It will be a great experience for your children especially and for better or for worse, an eye-opening one.

Knowing you have a limited time frame and a level of security - I think you will probably enjoy Argentina more than most. You will be here long enough to be immersed in the culture but since you know it's not forever, many of the ah..quirks of Argentina can be much more easily overlooked. You will have the ability to travel and see South America which is great.

I think many of the complaints here are generated by a) those who read a guidebook written in 2003, arrive here and expect to earn a living teaching English and enjoy $10 USD steak dinners and get a rude awakening when the realize that it's expensive, more than in many cities in the US and Europe, they'll going to be working 2x to earn less than they would at McDonalds and there isn't a lot of opportunities for foreigners. And b) on the other side, you hear a lot of complaints from people that moved here for their partner and feel "trapped" and can see only the myriad of things wrong with Argentina and bemoan they're not back in home country where everything is better (grass is always greener you know

I enjoy Argentina and have a wonderful life here. But that life is based on the people in it and the memories we are building, not on some mythical "Argentina experience". It's my life and the people in it that I love, not necessarily Argentina. People looking for a country to make them fulfilled or happy are doomed to failure IMO.

You take the good with the bad and you definitely learn to innovate. I'm from NYC - the only thing I used my oven for before I moved here was to store things. Now, we cook at home 95% of the time. Why? Because after several years of parilla (and don't get me wrong - I LOVE an asado!), I want something different. And since food options are limited here, you learn to cook. You stalk spices in Barrio Chino. You beg your friends coming to visit to bring you things. And then you go from there.

Your kids will gain an experience that will stand them in good stead their entire life. You'll get a chance to work in a different environment and gain international experience. You said your salary will enable you to live comfortably so that's great. You're only here for 4 years so why not do it.

(All positives aside, I'm assuming you have investigated the tax implications - if any - of your stay here, have the support of the company to assist you at least initially with finding housing - have negotiated that the company will act as guarantor and allow you to rent long-term - have confirmed that the company will take inflation into account and will conduct annual or 2x a year reviews - have negotiated flights home (at an average of 1500 USD for flights to Europe, it gets expensive QUICKLY to try and get your family back for a visit), etc.

 

[Xeneizes]

Name: Xeneizes
Location: Recoleta

When I see this combination, my eyes roll and my head shakes side-to-side. And I find it difficult to digest what follows.

I understand that many wealthy expats live in a cultural bubble in Recoleta and Palermo, but your unabashed conviction that I must be one of those based on the area in which I live is sadly misplaced and unnecessarily judgmental.

I live in Argentina on an Argentine salary, paid in pesos. I live in Recoleta because I found a great room in an apartment with 27 year old Argentine and a 20 year old French student. When I was looking for an apartment I did not set my preferences to expat areas, I just happened to find the best option for me at the time in Recoleta.

I speak exclusively Spanish at home. I work for a trilingual company with Spanish, English, and Portuguese speakers.

I have hung out extensively in Congreso, Microcentro, Palermo, Recoleta, San Telmo, Flores, Once, Almagro, and just about every other major barrio. I have made local friends who I've gone on dates with, played soccer in the parks with, and traveled outside of CF with.

I really appreciate you taking the time to comment on my post rather than the description of my location.

 

[steveinbsas]

This is done so that small kids dont fall of THE balcony

Apartment owners who don't have children and live on upper floors almost always have anti robo curtains on their windows and the sliding doors that lead to their balconies.

This is to prevent access to the "spiderman" robbers who have been known to scale a building front to enter through an unprotected door or window. A few apartments do have various types of netting above the railings that are almost always "solid" as well as high enough to prevent small kids from falling off the balcony. Those who have the netting above the railings are usually only trying to contain their cats.

 

[trennod]

Header, if you do decide to accept your offer, do pay particular attention to the last paragraph of citygirls post. I would think your company should provide that already (flights home, tax advice) however one thing that was not discussed (for me atleast) was the long term rental issue (which thankfully we have since rectified). It will obviously make it much easier for you!

 

[HowardinBA]

keep on thread folks for the sake of the OP..or you,ll prove them right again!!!

 

[trennod]

It is not made up, but based on a poll among the members on BAexpats: http://baexpats.org/expat-life/5805-crime-bsas-anyone.html

This kind of poll is not solid statistics, but it gives an indication of what to expect, if you live in BsAs for some years and "stick out" as a foreigner.

Is 50% in that poll, really that bad anyway. I lived in Australia for 22 years and was probably a victim of crime a good few times. Just off the top of my head, I can think of a few including couple of home burglaries, stolen phone, stolen suit jacket at a ball, stolen jewellery, stolen money (at work when I was in my teens). Perhaps I have been the victim of crime every 3 years in Australia, say every expat stays for an average of 1 year (50 % chance of crime, ie a crime against every 2 years). 2 years vs 3 years isnt that bad?

I guess the morale is though, that statistics like this often arent representative (or perhaps my example is simplified, stupíd and my maths sucks .

In reality though, I wouldnt have thought BA is too bad. Its no Mexico, La Paz but then I guess its not as safe as some big cities, Melbourne, NYC etc etc. If you take precautions in which ever city you are in, hopefully you will get along without much incident (or without anything serious anyway).

 

[Fabe]

There are lies , there are damnable lies , and there are statistics. ( Mark Twain ?)
I think all will be well , if the statistic is preceded by : "AMONGST expats polled-"

 

[citygirl]

I don't think Argentine is particularly dangerous when considering violent crime such as rape and murder.

However, I do find it one of the less pleasant places in terms of home robberies, pick-pocketing, muggings, etc.

It always shocks me to go back to the US or Europe and see people driving around in expensive cars, using their blackberries and iphones on the street, walking around with visible laptops in a bag or using one in the park, wearing nice watches and jewelry, etc. Then I remember I used to live like that as well.

Now, my expensive jewelry is in a safe, my phone doesn't come out of my bag, my laptop is never used outside and while I would love to have a nice car, I can't take that risk.