Judgement Left Intact: Vulture Funds

[EdRooney]

Sometimes our adept ability to get to the Falklands or Obamacare from any possible topic is downright dizzying.

 

[ajoknoblauch]

The idea that Reagan encouraged Galtieri to invade the Falkands is a little hard to take in, to put it mildly.

Reagan was stupid, but not quite that stupid (though he did address Brazilians as Bolivians at an official banquet).

 

[toongeorges]

Still $ 95 billion dollars in debt + interest pales in comparison with the public debt in Europe, the US and Japan, the consumer debt in the US. or China's private debt, all of them well above $ 10,000,000,000,000 ! Moreover, there is a demographical problem in the US, Europe, Japan and China in that there are ever less working people and ever more retirees. Since the GDP of the US + Europe + China + Japan is more or less 2/3 of the world's GDP and there are debts for over 100% of GDP and there are ever more expenses and there is ever less income (because of the demographic evolution), I think it is not just Argentina who has a debt problem. I think the whole world is facing a debt crisis that just won't go away (unless with hyperinflation).

 

[ajoknoblauch]

Still $ 95 billion dollars in debt + interest pales in comparison with the public debt in Europe, the US and Japan, the consumer debt in the US. or China's private debt, all of them well above $ 10,000,000,000,000 ! Moreover, there is a demographical problem in the US, Europe, Japan and China in that there are ever less working people and ever more retirees. Since the GDP of the US + Europe + China + Japan is more or less 2/3 of the world's GDP and there are debts for over 100% of GDP and there are ever more expenses and there is ever less income (because of the demographic evolution), I think it is not just Argentina who has a debt problem. I think the whole world is facing a debt crisis that just won't go away (unless with hyperinflation).

The debt crisis is bogus - the problem is economic stagnation due to lack of demand, which requires greater public investment rather than less. Except in erratic countries like Argentina, inflation is at historic lows. At some point, debt could become a problem, but it's not now.

 

[ARbound]

Sometimes our adept ability to get to the Falklands or Obamacare from any possible topic is downright dizzying.

Don't forget Hitler/Third Reich. It got mildly referenced earlier.

 

[toongeorges]

The debt crisis is bogus - the problem is economic stagnation due to lack of demand, which requires greater public investment rather than less. Except in erratic countries like Argentina, inflation is at historic lows. At some point, debt could become a problem, but it's not now.

I rather believe in the Austrian school than in Keynes. I think worldwide debt at current levels, given the demographic evolution, IS a problem. I know it is a problem, because I see society is changing. I was taught to earn and save money to work towards financial independence. I was taught that private property was a right one could deserve. Tough recently, I got scared, because I hear more and more people verbally attack people with savings. Nowadays, if you have money, it does not sound anymore that you have earned it, but that you have been exploiting. There are a lot of people (at least in Europe) crying for wealth taxes, taking the money from the "few" and distributing it to the "needy". If there would be no debt problem, people would not be questioning private property.

 

[dennisr]

FYI
A summary of why Argentina is in the pickle they are in with the courts:
http://www.shearman.com/~/media/Files/NewsInsights/Publications/2013/08/Dont-Cry-for-Me-Argentine-Bondholders-The-Second__/Files/View-full-memo-Dont-Cry-for-Me-Argentine-Bondhol__/FileAttachment/DontCryforMeArgentineBondholdersTheSecondCircuit__.pdf

 

[Redpossum]

Also what reparations are you talking about?

“The Anglo-Argentine Investments Promotion & Protection Treaty”, which was signed in London in December 1990 and sanctioned on 4/11/1992 by Argentina’s Congress as Law No. 24.184.

Article 5 gave the UK control over Argentina's armed forces, especially in Patagonia, where there are vast US, UK, and Israeli investments

Article 12 provided that Argentina's economy was to be "fully and completely deregulated" and led to public companies, (oil, mining, railways, highways, airlines, electricity, gas and water utilities, pension funds, postal services, insurance and reinsurance, and banks), being privatised and sold off at bargain prices. This same article also provided that foreign “investors” were to be given the fullest protection, rights and assistance.

You challenged me to back up what I said, and there it is. I just had to dig a little bit. Note that some of the translations are my own, and probably not word perfect.

 

[ajoknoblauch]

I rather believe in the Austrian school than in Keynes. I think worldwide debt at current levels, given the demographic evolution, IS a problem. I know it is a problem, because I see society is changing. I was taught to earn and save money to work towards financial independence. I was taught that private property was a right one could deserve. Tough recently, I got scared, because I hear more and more people verbally attack people with savings. Nowadays, if you have money, it does not sound anymore that you have earned it, but that you have been exploiting. There are a lot of people (at least in Europe) crying for wealth taxes, taking the money from the "few" and distributing it to the "needy". If there would be no debt problem, people would not be questioning private property.

There are times when Keynes makes sense and, except for countries like Argentina, this is one of them.

 

[GS_Dirtboy]

In the real world a debtor who cannot pay one's debts has the right to go to the lender and attempt to restructure those debts in good faith. The only problem is that Argentina doesn't live in the real world. They told their creditors that they were only going to pay a small percentage of what they owed - take it or take a hike. Most creditors took that offer.

A small percentage said, "Ni pedo!" and took them to court.

During the proceedings Argentina routinely acted like they were above the law (to which they signed) even to the point of insinuating they would not follow the Supreme Court's directives. That has a tendency to piss off judges.

CFK can rant and rave tonight about the "Yanquis de Mierda" but Argentina's BEST move now would be negotiate a settlement with Elliot. This would pave the way finally for access to international credit markets.

In any event, we are in for a bumpy ride the next 18 months. I see turbulence ahead called Peso Devaluation.