Just a reassurance for Visa Runners to Colonia

[Bajo_cero2]

I was granted permanent residency on the third renewal of my visa rentista (the start of my fourth year).

I know one expat who expects to get his permanent residency at the second renewal of his work visa.

Either way, when you go to renew just ask for the cambio de categoria to permanent. If you are eligible and don't ask, you probably won't get it!

Right! You might have more rights with less requisites and less bureaucracy in only two years.
Regards

 

[mini]

I was granted permanent residency on the third renewal of my visa rentista (the start of my fourth year).

I know one expat who expects to get his permanent residency at the second renewal of his work visa.

Either way, when you go to renew just ask for the cambio de categoria to permanent. If you are eligible and don't ask, you probably won't get it!

I also thought it was like you say. So, three years on temp then change to perm. I might just ask for the cambio de categoria.... Hey, it won't hurt to try, right?

What kind of temporary visa do you currently have? If it is a rentista visa, then on the third renewal you can request permanent status. I did this successfully.

We are on a "work visa" sponsored by his company. I'm his dependent. This will be our second renewal (ie. we'll have completed two years living here). So, we got our visa, lived here 1 year, renewed lived her 2nd year. We will now renew again & start our 3rd year. (does that make sense?)

 

[Bajo_cero2]

(ie. we'll have completed two years living here). So, we got our visa, lived here 1 year, renewed lived her 2nd year. We will now renew again & start our 3rd year. (does that make sense?)

Decreto 616-2010, residencia permanente
c) Tener arraigo por haber gozado de residencia temporaria por DOS (2) años continuos o más, si fuere nacional de los países del MERCADO COMUN DEL SUR (MERCOSUR) o Estados Asociados; y TRES (3) años continuos o más, en los demás casos.

Decreto 3213-84 ciudadania
Art. 3° — Los extranjeros designados en el artículo 2° inciso 1° de la Ley N° 346, al tiempo de solicitar su naturalización deberán cumplimentar las siguientes condiciones:
a) tener dieciocho (18) años de edad cumplidos
b) residir en la República dos (2) años continuos
c) manifestar ante los jueces federales su voluntad de serlo.

Regards

 

[steveinbsas]

I also thought it was like you say. So, three years on temp then change to perm. I might just ask for the cambio de categoria.... Hey, it won't hurt to try, right?

Right, especially if you have been in Argentina and any other Mercosur countries for those two (continuous) years.

IWe are on a "work visa" sponsored by his company. I'm his dependent. This will be our second renewal (ie. we'll have completed two years living here). So, we got our visa, lived here 1 year, renewed lived her 2nd year. We will now renew again & start our 3rd year. (does that make sense?)

Yes, it makes sense.

 

[mini]

In October we will be here 2 years. But I was told that the next renewal will be again be for temporary residency and not permanent. Is that not correct? When we go to renew our residency should we ask for permanent residency? I'm confused about this.

If you are referring to rockinja, she was given her "ultima prorroga" in May (before the rules changed) and had 90 days to "leave" the country. Not knowing what "ulitma prorroga" meant, she went to Colonia to get another 90 days. They did not suddenly give her five days without warning.

You can read more about it here: 90 day visa


I have never heard of anyone who has been here for two years being granted permanent residency. Isn't that the prorogative of migraciones? I don't think they can or will grant it on that basis. Citizenship, as you have previously posted is a judicial matter and has different requirements.

I was granted permanent residency on the third renewal of my visa rentista (the start of my fourth year).

I know one expat who expects to get his permanent residency at the second renewal of his work visa.

Either way, when you go to renew just ask for the cambio de categoria to permanent. If you are eligible and don't ask, you probably won't get it!

Ok, here is a newsflash related to the discussion above.

Today I finally got around to calling for my turno to get my DNI. The woman did not give me a turno as she said it was too close to my renewal date (Nov). She said it would be best to renew my residency then go get my DNI.

Now, here's the interesting part. She said according to some changes, we could now ask for a "cambio de categoria" from temp to permanent. So, there you go.

On Monday around 7.30-8am (*take that with a grain of salt! ) I'll go down to la migra, building #3 and get more info as she suggested.

 

[Bajo_cero2]

Don´t waste your time, there is nothing magic waiting there.

The "changes" she told you about are the decreto 616-2010 we were talking about for the last month. The 2 years she mentioned is related to mercosur citizens:

[FONT=&quot]c) Tener arraigo por haber gozado de residencia temporaria por DOS (2) años continuos o más, si fuere nacional de los países del MERCADO COMUN DEL SUR (MERCOSUR) o Estados Asociados; y TRES (3) años continuos o más, en los demás casos. Asimismo, deberá dar cumplimiento a las demás condiciones que determine la DIRECCION NACIONAL DE MIGRACIONES según el tipo de residencia temporaria de que se trate.

[/FONT]But, as I explained before, having two years you have the right for a citizenship. I suggest you insist for your dni no matter what because having it you can apply for free for the citizenship.

Regards

 

[A&A]

Is there a website that shows the statistics as to how many people actually applied for (let's call it) "2 Year citizenship". Through the courts. Where were they from, etc.? Numbers please.

I have yet to see anyone on this forum say they have done it this way..not even the elusive "friend of a friend" post.

Coming from a legal background, I know that when you go to court there is always a "Cone of Uncertainty". Then you expect to begin arguing Constitutional Law before a High Court, on something written in to the National Constitution and suggest this is the ideal way to solve any issue, Yeah good luck with that.

And if as people say, Argentina "works" a bit slower than here int he U.S. and I can only imagine how slowly the wheels of Justice grind down there. It takes several years just to get to the Supremes here (unless some huge NAtional pressing issue like Bush v. Gore 2000)...I don't imagine you get before in District Level there in less than a year.

 

[steveinbsas]

Is there a website that shows the statistics as to how many people actually applied for (let's call it) "2 Year citizenship". Through the courts. Where were they from, etc.? Numbers please.

I think someone recently posted that three foreigners were granted citizenship in ten recent cases (could have been three out of thirteen), but I haven't tried to find the post.

And if as people say, Argentina "works" a bit slower than here int he U.S. and I can only imagine how slowly the wheels of Justice grind down there. It takes several years just to get to the Supremes here (unless some huge NAtional pressing issue like Bush v. Gore 2000)...I don't imagine you get before in District Level there in less than a year.

You don't have to go before the Argentine Supreme court to petition for citizenship, but if a lower court judge rules against you, I think it remains an option, though undoubtedly a slow one.

 

[mini]

Don´t waste your time, there is nothing magic waiting there.

The "changes" she told you about are the decreto 616-2010 we were talking about for the last month. The 2 years she mentioned is related to mercosur citizens:

[FONT=&quot]c) Tener arraigo por haber gozado de residencia temporaria por DOS (2) años continuos o más, si fuere nacional de los países del MERCADO COMUN DEL SUR (MERCOSUR) o Estados Asociados; y TRES (3) años continuos o más, en los demás casos. Asimismo, deberá dar cumplimiento a las demás condiciones que determine la DIRECCION NACIONAL DE MIGRACIONES según el tipo de residencia temporaria de que se trate.

[/FONT]But, as I explained before, having two years you have the right for a citizenship. I suggest you insist for your dni no matter what because having it you can apply for free for the citizenship.

Regards

I'm just telling you what she told me. She said specifically that now NON Mercorsur people could apply for a "cambio de categoria" from temp to perm. Anyway, I'm going there on Monday as I need to see what happened to my husband's DNI & confirm some papers. I'll report back (if I can get up early enough.... )

I have no intention of becoming an Argentine citizen. I'm sure someone soon will take up your challenge, but it won't be me!

 

[Bajo_cero2]

Is there a website that shows the statistics as to how many people actually applied for (let's call it) "2 Year citizenship". Through the courts. Where were they from, etc.? Numbers please.

The only way to get citizenship is though the Federal Judges. It has been done this way for the last 150 years. The last big european immigration was after WWII. That´s why I said that the system is rusty. After that the immigration was from borderline countries and the illegality was solved though general amnesties.

About immigration in this country:
http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inmigracion_en_Argentina

In fact, the Statics done by INDEC are focus on Mercosur immigrants. http://www.indec.mecon.ar/.

So, if you have legal background please read law 346.

I have yet to see anyone on this forum say they have done it this way..not even the elusive "friend of a friend" post.

Well, until a month ago everybody was focus on residencies because they had poor legal advice, I introduced the citizen strategy, so it is a little soon for expecting a first hand experience. Even those who full fit all the requisites don´t understand they should do it this way. Mini is a good example, no offense.

Coming from a legal background, I know that when you go to court there is always a "Cone of Uncertainty".

Depends, I disagree. This is true if you are proposing a new interpretation, I am not.

I can assert my friend that there are 80 years of pacific precedents from the Supreme Court that confirms the strategy I proposed. And the Supreme Court confirmed it again this year.
Federal judges are rusty but they have to follow Supreme Court precedents. So, if I explain properly the case I might win it between 3 days and 3 weeks.

Then you expect to begin arguing Constitutional Law before a High Court, on something written in to the National Constitution and suggest this is the ideal way to solve any issue, Yeah good luck with that.

Wrong! The strategy isn´t to propose an interpretation. The strategy is to enforce Supreme Court precedents before the federal judges. You know this is not such a big deal.

And if as people say, Argentina "works" a bit slower than here int he U.S. and I can only imagine how slowly the wheels of Justice grind down there.

When there is an opponent, trials might be slow, specially if you don´t have a good lawyer or you try to pay fees as low as possibles. An standard case takes 1 year to 2 years.

But there is none opponent.

The first federal judge has between 3 days to 3 weeks to sentence.
The Chamber between 1 to 3 months. I can double check asking them, it´s two blocks far.
Supreme Court takes 6 months. But I believe that this might be faster because the appeals before the Supreme Court are separated by subject, some of them are crowded (retirement insurance law or working law for example). But I don´t think that citizen is crowded nowadays.

It takes several years just to get to the Supremes here (unless some huge NAtional pressing issue like Bush v. Gore 2000)...I don't imagine you get before in District Level there in less than a year.

Yes, I know but with all my respect, you are talking about an conservative society with a Supreme Court according to this model. Supreme Court takes 200 cases a year there because they only do leading cases, so it is very difficult to enforce the Bill of Rights. In fact the SC already showed it´s useless to protect basic rights.

We don´t have a conservative society, that´s why to access to Supreme Court is easier. The SC deal with 10.000 cases per year in this country and, because of that, it is a sharp mechanism for rights protection.

Regars