Just a reassurance for Visa Runners to Colonia

[Bajo_cero2]

I have no intention of becoming an Argentine citizen. I'm sure someone soon will take up your challenge, but it won't be me!

Right, you don´t need it, I respect that. This strategy is for those who are irregulars.

By the way, you don´t need to go there, mail them:
http://www.migraciones.gov.ar/accesible/?contactenos
They answer you in 24 hs.

Regards

 

[redrum]

I've always been curious why people think they need to make trips to Uruguay or other places to renew their 90 day tourist visas. What's the point, a tourist visa isn't valid for living in Argentina full-time, that stamp doesn't make you anymore legal than doing nothing at all. Why don't people save their money and just pay the fine when they leave?

because if you overstay your visa too many times then you will begin to be hassled. it's one thing to have multiple visa runs to colonia. it's another thing to be overstaying your visa and paying the fine at eze. in my opinion, this is like rubbing salt in the wound.

each time you overstay your visa, a hand written series of digits is written into your passport right under the stamp. i have no idea what these digits mean however each time i've had an immigration agent flip through my passport, they always pause and do a double take when they see these occurrences. a couple of questions usually follow after that.

so in my opinion, if you don't have multiple occurrences of over staying your visa then you'd probably have no problem paying the fine. once they start to add up however, expect to be hassled a bit more.

 

[steveinbsas]

I just read (in another forum) a lengthy and detailed account of an expat who is married to an Argentine but has been doing the "perma-tourist" thing for five years. He only missed once by one day and had to pay the 300 peso fine. On Sept first he was told it was the last time and he has 90 days to radicarse. He did say that the staff was all new (in Tigre) and they were very serious about the fact that he had been "misusing" the tourist visa. He indicated that they entered his info in the computer and wrote a series of digits below the stamp in his passport but he did not say if they wrote the words "ulitma prorroga" in it. I believe they should be written in it if it's really the last time.

He also wrote the following:

"I am in touch with a lawyer and will be pursuing whatever courses might be open to me, but of course the bottom line if I don't succeed is that I will be obliged either to remain here illegally and not leave the country at all (which status, I suppose, would qualify me for deportation), or to leave the country and go somewhere to live for a substantial period of time while doing all the correct things to see if I qualify for (in my case) a retired person's visa at an Argentina embassy or consulate."

I don't know if the post (story) is true. It sound a bit like fear mongering to me (using terms like deportation), but he may be genuinely afraid of what he thinks could happen. Nonetheless, I find it hard to believe that someone who is really married to an Argentine and could easily qualify for permanent residency would continue to make the trip to Uruguay for five years and not be aware of the simple solution to his problem. Even if what Bajo Cero has posted about citizenship for "inhabitants" is true, this guy should get permanent residency because of his marital status. He shouldn't need a lawyer for that!

According to Bajo Cero, even if this guy wasn't married to an Argentine he should be able to receive Argentine citizenship based on living in Argentina for more than three years, even though he has made a number of trips to Uruguay and had one visa overstay. And if Bajo Cero is right, "deportation" doesn't happen for visa overstays and the term illegal isn't applicable for an inhabitant whose immigration status is irregular.

 

[gunt86]

here is the law that is causing all the problems for the permatourists.

 

[French jurist]

I just read (in another forum) a lengthy and detailed account of an expat who is married to an Argentine but has been doing the "perma-tourist" thing for five years. He only missed once by one day and had to pay the 300 peso fine. On Sept first he was told it was the last time and he has 90 days to radicarse. He did say that the staff was all new (in Tigre) and they were very serious about the fact that he had been "misusing" the tourist visa. He indicated that they entered his info in the computer and wrote a series of digits below the stamp in his passport but he did not say if they wrote the words "ulitma prorroga" in it. I believe they should be written in it if it's really the last time.

He also wrote the following:

"I am in touch with a lawyer and will be pursuing whatever courses might be open to me, but of course the bottom line if I don't succeed is that I will be obliged either to remain here illegally and not leave the country at all (which status, I suppose, would qualify me for deportation), or to leave the country and go somewhere to live for a substantial period of time while doing all the correct things to see if I qualify for (in my case) a retired person's visa at an Argentina embassy or consulate."

I don't know if the post (story) is true. It sound a bit like fear mongering to me (using terms like deportation), but he may be genuinely afraid of what he thinks could happen. Nonetheless, I find it hard to believe that someone who is really married to an Argentine and could easily qualify for permanent residency would continue to make the trip to Uruguay for five years and not be aware of the simple solution to his problem. Even if what Bajo Cero has posted about citizenship for "inhabitants" is true, this guy should get permanent residency because of his marital status. He shouldn't need a lawyer for that!

According to Bajo Cero, even if this guy wasn't married to an Argentine he should be able to receive Argentine citizenship based on living in Argentina for more than three years, even though he has made a number of trips to Uruguay and had one visa overstay. And if Bajo Cero is right, "deportation" doesn't happen for visa overstays and the term illegal isn't applicable for an inhabitant whose immigration status is irregular.

As you said, that's very very odd since he is married to an Argentinean (permanent residency is a right).

 

[steveinbsas]

As you said, that's very very odd since he is married to an Argentinean (permanent residency is a right).

I sent him an email this morning and already received a reply. I believe he simply didn't know what his options were. Just imagine, all those trip to Uruguay when he only needed to go to migraciones as soon as he got married.

 

[Bajo_cero2]

As you said, that's very very odd since he is married to an Argentinean (permanent residency is a right).

This isn´t odd, this is typical when you deal with administrative agents because they only have high school and they follow orders. They don´t have permission to think. Only judges has this permission and they use it sometimes.
Regards

 

[Bajo_cero2]

I sent him an email this morning and already received a reply. I believe he simply didn't know what his options were. Just imagine, all those trip to Uruguay when he only needed to go to migraciones as soon as he got married.

Lack of proper legal advice is the worst enemy of an immigrant always. However, please mention her that she can get citizenship too, probably she has no enough time to get the papers they ask her.

Regards

 

[Bajo_cero2]

According to Bajo Cero, even if this guy wasn't married to an Argentine he should be able to receive Argentine citizenship based on living in Argentina for more than three years, even though he has made a number of trips to Uruguay and had one visa overstay. And if Bajo Cero is right, "deportation" doesn't happen for visa overstays and the term illegal isn't applicable for an inhabitant whose immigration status is irregular.

There is some confusion.
The general rule is "you need 2 years" but there are exceptions like "marriage", as soon as you get married, the day after you can apply for citizenship, this is not like US were you need like 8 years.

Deportation happens in fact, only if you don´t defend your self properly.
Let´s clarify this. With the former "Videla" law, immigrations agent were able to deport you and that´s it. With the new migration law there weren´t clear orders about that. Deportation for mercosur is forbidden so they didn´t know what to do. With decreto 616 they have a legal procedure. This meas, please read this, they give you ultimatum (ultima prorroga) or just a few days sayin as already happened, after that they do a deportation order. They send this to a judge and he send police to your home, you go under the judge and in 24 hs you are deported. But you are in jail for 24 hours. And the judge has to verify the legality of the deportation order. You don´t have a good lawyer specialized in criminal and constitutional law and say good bye to this country because you are going to be deported and banned.

That´s why I insist about dealing with this in advance, as soon as there is a deportation order is very difficult to solve it. The precedents of the federal judges and the chamber are NEGATIVE so this mean you have to go to Supreme Court but meanwhile you might be in jail. Freedom can be solicited but can be denied too.

So, don´t wait until police is in your door to realize that you should do something about it.

Rights aren´t magic, the idea behind a bill of rights is that whoever has power abuses of it, the rights are there but they need to be enforced through judges and you and only you can defend your self. Don´t be naive.

Regards

 

[steveinbsas]

Thanks for the clarification! This is anything but reassuring. I hope others who made the "Colonia run" since Sept 1 will let us know if they received the ultima prorroga or were admitted with a new 90 day visa.

With decreto 616 they have a legal procedure. This means, please read this, they give you ultimatum (ultima prorroga), after that they do a deportation order. They send this to a criminal judge and he send police to your home, you go under the judge and in 24 hrs you are deported. But you are in jail for 24 hours. And the judge has to verify the legality of the deportation order.

You don´t have a good lawyer specialized in criminal and constitutional law and say good bye to this country because you are going to be deported and banned.

Do you know if anyone has been arrested, deported, and/or banned as a result of the new decreto or is it too soon for that to have happened?

Just this morning on "that other" forum, someone posted "for new arrivals that want to test the waters, I think you will find no problem to renew your tourist visa multiple times."

A temporary resident visa (good for one year) is renewable. A tourist visa (good for 90 days) is not actually renewable. It may be extended once for an additional 90 days at the office of migraciones. For some time, those going to Colonia were granted a new tourist visa when they reentered Argentina, but it was clearly not the intent of the law for this to be done on a repeat basis.

For at least the time being I would not advise anyone to come (or move) to Argentina with the belief that they can "renew" their tourist visa multiple times. We should know more in the next few months, if not weeks.