Landlady claiming rent transfer did not go through

[TheBlackHand]

Lol. Is this gibberish for real ? When did I say people shouldn't ask for advice ? Did you really need advice on how to follow up with an international wire transfer to make sure the receiver actually receives the funds into her account ? And how are you " protecting yourself " by not following up on the rent payment you sent that the owner didn't receive ? Please explain ?

Also, for the record, your bank can only confirm that the money was received by the bank. They cannot confirm that the money ever got to the owners account. If they could, we wouldn't be having this conversation. Basically you just want to wash your hands of the situation and have the owner deal with the Banco Central, AFIP, her own Bank and what ever other loops she might have to jump through to finally get her money, just so you can save a few bucks on the exchange rate. Congrats.

I do completely understand that you don't care at all about the predicament you've put the owner in. Like I said in my first post, " it's not your problem ".

I just hope next time you go and ask the owner for favors, she tells you the same thing. It's not her problem.

It's my personal opinion. ignore it, who cares, but as this is an open forum I will express my opinion no matter how much it bothers you.

Furthermore, to advise, in the most negative and childish way possible, any newcomer not to ask the advice of others who might have gone through the same experience here is simply and highly irresponsible and I must assume you or people you know benefit from the continued ignorance of newcomers like myself. Why else try to discourage us from trying to protect ourselves with as much knowledge as possible?

For the record, my bank confirms that the money was indeed received. And my landlady has given me absolutely no proof that she has not received the money. Thus, I need to protect myself if she continues her claims. And the information other, more helpful, posters to this forum have given me has been invaluable.

 

[ndcj]

Also, for the record, your bank can only confirm that the money was received by the bank. They cannot confirm that the money ever got to the owners account. If they could, we wouldn't be having this conversation. Basically you just want to wash your hands of the situation and have the owner deal with the Banco Central, AFIP, her own Bank and what ever other loops she might have to jump through to finally get her money, just so you can save a few bucks on the exchange rate. Congrats.

For real? What more can the OP do? After confirming with his bank that they acted on his instructions and transferred the money to the recipient's bank, it's entirely (and properly) a matter between the recipient, their bank and their government to sort out.

What would you have him do beyond checking with his bank? Pay again because the landlord cannot comply with her government's requirements for money transfers? It'd be a different matter if the OP's money had been returned, or if it gets returned in the future (lost wire transfers often take months to return), but that apparently isn't the case.

Maybe he could make her a mate cocido? I'm not sure what else he can do.

To the OP, if she starts getting antsy, you might want to consider sending her a carta documento stating your position, with the details of wire transfer and your claim that your bank says the other bank received the transfer.

 

[nicoenarg]

Ugh…a month ago I posted on here about how my landlady wanted me to pay three month's rent at the black market rate which, for me, would have amounted to another month's rent. Luckily, my spanish teacher helped negotiate for me to pay through wire transfer, so I could pay the official rate. She also wrote up receipts, signed by my landlady, thank goodness, which stated that I did indeed pay 3 months rent at such and such date.

But now my landlady is claiming the transfer did not go through. Either she is totally lying or her bank somehow 'misplaced' her money. Which, considering some of the stories I've heard here, don't seem inconceivable.

Any suggestions anyone? Hopefully I'm protected from being thrown out because of the receipts she signed. Also, isn't this between her and her bank? How is this my problem?

Contrary to what TheBlackHand is saying, it is really not your problem. The example he puts forward of "I won't have anything to eat for 3 months", even if its sounds all cruel, is still not your problem. You've paid your rent according to the deal you struck with her. You have proof that you have done so. She has no proof that it hasn't happened. She might be trying to strong arm you into paying more. She might have thought about what she was doing later and might have not liked what she agreed to. Again, her problem! Its your problem ONLY if you put a gun to her head and forced her to accept your offer to wire transfer the money.

Let her figure it out. You've done your part.

Unless you're running a charity and its your business to worry about other people's well being... in that case, ignore what I wrote above.

 

[Iznogud]

Do not agree with this.
Yours is an obligation of results, not intent. You must see the operation through, to the landlord's satisfaction.

ONLY if you can prove that her bank is witholding the funds, then it will be up to her to sort it out with the bank of her choice.

 

[nicoenarg]

Do not agree with this.
Yours is an obligation of results, not intent. You must see the operation through, to the landlord's satisfaction.

ONLY if you can prove that her bank is witholding the funds, then it will be up to her to sort it out with the bank of her choice.

The agreement, as I understand it, between them was a wire transfer. Not only did OP do his wire transfer but made sure (via his bank, the only way he could) that the transfer went through to the other bank. Now he has no power, nor jurisdiction to go over to his landlady's bank and ask for informationa specific to her account. That's her problem and for her to figure out.

The OP has receipts (?) that say that he has paid the rent already at a certain date. That is that.

The landlady has to figure out what went wrong and where. The OP might have to bring proof that he has done everything properly.

When two parties agree to go the route of a wire transfer (because of the landlady's insistence that she get the blue market rate) then they both need to factor in the risks that come with using the third party (the bank in this case). Screw ups happen. If the wire transfer got lost or screwed up on the OP's side of things (with his bank, for example), I'd be telling him that it was his problem. But right now, its the landlady's claim against his proof.

Yeah, either you guys are looking at it with very skewed opinions or I have the facts wrong.

 

[ElQueso]

I know this is tough situation. I have to agree with Nico on this as well.

The landlady, first, should not be asking for the blue dollar rate. It's not in accordance with the law related to rental contracts, to begin with. I don't really care what other people here do - I don't think it's right of them to ask for the blue dollar rate either.

If she wants more rent due to inflation, then she should be raising the rent itself and be done with it. People here seem to want things both ways - nothing to do with foreigners when they don't need something, then demanding foreign currency when their own government fails them and creates inflation.

The landlady certainly has some responsibility in this as far as receiving a wire transfer. I think it was BlackHand who put it a little strongly, but I would have never suggested to anyone to send a wire here if it can at all be avoided. However, the OP may have had no way of knowing that this was a bad move, without experience of being here. The landlady may not have known either, but it's incumbent upon her to make sure she knows and understands the banking laws of her own county when accepting payment from a foreigner.

I used to have problems all the time in sending money to Argentina, when I was employing a local software development company. Every month, I had to send a wire to pay the bill, and often it would be months before the money would hit their accounts. I worked with the company's accountant when requested to provide the numbers for the transfer and such - but once it was received by the bank here, there was absolutely nothing I could do about it.

The development company never once threatened me, threatened to stop work, etc, until the money came in. They knew what went on in their own country.

I'm not saying the OP doesn't have an obligation, TO AN EXTENT, to make things right. Seems to me that's been done. What more should the OP do? Break out the cash now, while there is a pending transfer, and pay the landlord now, then ask meekly for the transferred money back when it actually gets deposited? We're in Argentina, for crying out loud. The chances of the OP ever seeing that money again would be pretty slim.

Should the OP rethink what to do next time? Absolutely. But in the meantime, I would continue to be as helpful as possible, as sympathetic as possible, but it is on the landlord's nickel to work out the issues she has with her own country's banking laws.

After all, she agreed to accept the transfer in lieu of payment in dollars in cash, or pesos at the blue rate.

 

[ndcj]

Do not agree with this.
Yours is an obligation of results, not intent. You must see the operation through, to the landlord's satisfaction.

ONLY if you can prove that her bank is witholding the funds, then it will be up to her to sort it out with the bank of her choice.

His bank says they acted on his instructions and credited the recipient's bank. That's as far as a telegraphic trace gets you, but it's sufficient for the purposes of your "results, not intent" test.

The landlady's bank acts as her agent -- when she instructed the OP to wire money to that bank for her benefit, the OP discharged his responsibility for payment when it reached her agent -- her bank. Same goes for any regulatory delays because her funds are held by the BCRA, or if they withhold 30% for percepciones.

Take some other examples with the same obligations and outcomes. If the OP deposited cash instead and got robbed on the way to the bank, it's his problem. If the bank gets robbed, it's between the bank and the landlady.

 

[el_expatriado]

Hi guys, I posted this in another thread just now, but I'll post it here too... If you need USD locally, just send me a PM and I will put you in touch with someone who can give you USD here.

You have to wire or ACH funds to their account in the USA and they will give you the funds here in Argentina. This is a free service. And if you have a caja de ahorros in USD they can even deposit to your account here and you don't even have to go and pick it up.

 

[Ashley]

At work, we receive international transfers from clients abroad to an account Argentina and it is usually a pain in the neck to get the central bank to release these funds into the argentine account. Everytime a payment is sent, my boss has to spend hours at the bank, filling in paperwork and presentating documentation so that CB can ensure that the appropriate taxes are being filed etc (with all of the documentation in order...which it always is, this can take anything from 5 days to 2 weeks before it appears in the Argentine account). I'm not sure what happens to the money in the case that someone is unable to provide this documentation...whether it gets sent back or remains in limbo. If I were you, I would give your landlady proof (a copy) from your bank that the funds have been sent and then it really is up to her to go to her bank and file the necessary documentation...assuming of course that she is declaring this income. I don't think that its up to the OP to have to chase someone around in this case, especially someone who's demanding a blue rate (and therefore probably not declaring her income!). I agree with El Queso and will add that if this landladys paperwork is in order, she will get her funds! If her paperwork is not in order, that is her problem entirely.

 

[dennisr]

All foreign wire transfers go through the Argentine Central Bank: middle man.
Getting them to release the funds could be where the problem is? Just a thought.