Latin Americas move to the left Good ? OR Bad

[AlexfromLA]

So New Orleans has about 70 killings / 100,000 and Juarez has about 200+ killings/ 100,000.

Does that mean Jindal and Calderon should have been " taken out " years ago ?

They average over 200+ murders /100,000 people annually. That blows away Bogota which is 22.7 murders/100K.

Now since you bring up this specific comparison between Colombia and Venezuela. Which country has more killings of journalists and political opposition members per year ? I'm guessing the article didn't focus on that. I am also guessing you don't know the answer to this question.

Once you do know the answer and the reason for it, you will understand the true dangers of a real dictatorship.

 

[LAtoBA]

I have a question. From what I understand of Venezuela's society they aren't really so focused on race, as we are in the US, but more focused on class. Of course, the white people are more likely to be middle/upper class, but I really think their problem is more with classism than racism. Though I could be wrong, this was the impression I was given. I have known a few dark skinned anti-Chavez Venezuelans that is why I ask.

Sort of. Race is always an issue in Latin America but it's usually "soft racism" as opposed to the "hard" racism found in places such as the US, ie, miscegenation laws, segregation. In any event, you're correct that the support of Chavez has nothing to do with race (don't know what Windy was talking about) but more with class. The black and brown people in Venezuela are typically poorer than their white counterparts, as such the popularity of Chavez with them because he is seen as a populist and an advocate of the poor.

 

[polostar88]

Alex, mainly you are just a punk prick, and I doubt if that fact has escaped a single reader of this board. You are too young, evidently, and too inexperienced, to understand this, but if you're lucky, you'll grew up and figure it out. And thanks to the vagaries of memory, you probably won't even remember what a bloody immature prick you are at this stage of your life.

I feel like I'm exchanging views with a 9 -year - old.

You're not...you're exchanging views with a no-social-life Asperger's case who uses this forum as a substitute for having social relations in real life (one time he had a hysterical fit that I waited for two weeks in between posts). What's funny about it is that in other threads he tries to come off as a "baller" and can't stop talking about paying $200K cash for apts., designer clothes, makes fun of many of the young expats on this forum because they're poor, but in this thread together with "orwellian" (LOL) he's a class warrior worried about the poor masses of Caracas and their oppression at the hands of "the US-funded opposition." Such types aren't likely to see the contradiction though.

Another nasty side of the left tards who are posting on this thread is their obnoxious pretense that they represent "facts," when they present none in their posts; maybe they read something on a Huffington post forum or Chomsky pamphlet and think they're educated. They're not to be taken seriously.

Even so, "orwellian's" attempt at an explanatory post only confirmed what I had said earlier about the meaning of the South American "left": fleece the tiny middle class in order to buy votes from the slums, etc., cover it up with standard 50-yr old Marxified junk about "colonialism" and hope the morons buy it and the hysterics and useful idiots in the US (orwellian, AlexfromLA, Sean Penn, etc.) make your case for you.

 

[polostar88]

Now that you do not have any solid arguments on the subject you start to attacking me personally and not only that but patronizing me as well with my writing, for what a I can tell by now is that you are some kind of tea party moron...

get a life pal.


Down ‘n Out

You didn't have any arguments. You told me to watch an Oliver Stone movie. Stop presenting yourselves as "intellectuals," etc. when all you do is repeat crap from pamphlets and movies you watch.

I don't have anything to do with the tea parties but I'll tell you something tea party morons in the US won't do...they won't log on to Spanish-language Argentina expat sites and call you a Peronist moron for being screwed over by your govt. for the past 50 yrs.

Your country is an economic basketcase and becoming more so every day under "leftist" leadership, just like Venezuela is, so I wouldn't have such a big mouth in giving advice to Americans about how they should live.

 

[orwellian]

They used to live in Venezuela, but had to leave because the country is going into the shitter. And not just Caracas, although that is reaching "Escape From New York" levels.

Which is pretty much what you will hear from any middle class Venezuelan every time you meet them, whether you want to or not.
While true that the murder rate in Caracas is very high, it is not fair just to pick out a few bad things in Venezuela and not mention the overwhelmingly good things that he has done. Also the murder rate in Caracas has always been bad.

The story talks about how Iraq is safer than Venezuela.

I've read that Iraq is safer than certain cities in the U.S. And you are supposed to be a first world country.

Chavez has let that country sink into a cesspool in part by weakening his critics, which can sometimes mean weakening police. He should have been taken out 10 years ago.

So in the first sentence you accuse him of using undemocratic methods (without any proof). And then in the second sentence you advocate that he should be overthrown in a coup or even murdered.

It's a shame that a president can be allowed to just destroy a country.

de·stroy (d-stroi)
v. de·stroyed, de·stroy·ing, de·stroys
v.tr.
1. To cut the poverty level in half
2. To eradicate illiteracy
3. To provide affordable health care to all
4. To build more schools

That must be your definition of the word destroyed right? Or care to tell us how he has destroyed Venezuela without just echoing what you heard on Fox news or from some guy on the subte?

Another nasty side of the left tards who are posting on this thread is their obnoxious pretense that they represent "facts," when they present none in their posts; maybe they read something on a Huffington post forum or Chomsky pamphlet and think they're educated. They're not to be taken seriously.

Here are some facts for you to debate. Accomplishments of the Chavez government.

The Chávez government has greatly increased social spending, including spending on health care,
subsidized food, and education. The state oil company alone was responsible for $13.3 billion (7.3
percent of GDP) of social spending in 2006.

The most pronounced difference has been in the area of health care. In 1998 there were 1,628
primary care physicians for a population of 23.4 million. Today, there are 19,571 for a population of
27 million. In 1998 there were 417 emergency rooms, 74 rehab centers and 1,628 primary care
centers compared to 721 emergency rooms, 445 rehab centers and 8,621 primary care centers
(including the 6,500 “check-up points,” usually in poor neighborhoods, and that are in the process
of being expanded to more comprehensive primary care centers) today. Since 2004, 399,662 people
have had eye operations that restored their vision. In 1999, there were 335 HIV patients receiving
antiretroviral treatment from the government, compared to 18,538 in 2006.

The Venezuelan government has also provided widespread access to subsidized food. By 2006, there
were 15,726 stores throughout the country that offered mainly food items at subsidized prices (with
average savings of 27 percent and 39 percent compared to market prices in 2005 and 2006,
respectively). These plus expanded special programs for the extremely poor (e.g., soup kitchens
and food distribution) benefited an average of 67 percent and 43 percent of the population in 2005
and 2006 respectively. These do not include the 1.8 million children that were beneficiaries of a
school food program in 2006, compared with 252,000 children in 1999.

Access to education has also increased substantially. For example, the number of public schools in
the country has increased by 3,620 from 17,122 in the 1999/2000 school year to 20,873 in the
2004/2005 school year. By comparison, in the period between the 1994/1995 and 1998/1999
school years, the number of public schools increased by 915. School enrollment has also increased
at all educational levels. For example, in the period between the 1999/2000 and 2005/2006 school
years, gross enrollment rates for preschool have increased by 25 percent, for primary education by
8.3 percent, for secondary education by 45 percent and for higher education by 44 percent. Over
one million people also participated in adult literacy programs.

http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q...ocx4ug&sig=AHIEtbSIqzkxoHcavWP9ujFfx3iQ2I_caw

 

[LAtoBA]

I think to really have a discussion on this subject you really can't rely on western media to form a complete and accurate picture of Chavez. When Chavez first entered office I had high hopes for him. Although those hopes have diminished over the years it cannot be denied that he has attempted to help the poor, something his predecessors were never really keen on doing. The problem I have, is at what cost? Helping the poor in the short-term through pro-socialist policies may not be the best medicine for the poor in the long-term. Already we've seen that Venezuela has one of the highest inflation rates in Latin America, pretty much relies on oil to move the economy, and that international business is Venezuela averse (and for good reason).

At the same time I think the west, particularly the US has to take some of the blame for the increasing totalitarian nature of Chavez's regime. The US government did try and take him out through a coup in the early 2000's. If that doesn't make a president paranoid and more radical I don't know what would.

 

[AlexfromLA]

You really shouldn't talk about yourself like that. I mean, only you would know yourself that much to project in such detail, but seriously, have a little self respect.

You're not...you're exchanging views with a no-social-life Asperger's case who uses this forum as a substitute for having social relations in real life

Now about the rest of your catch phrase talking points laden rant with zero substance. Lol.

quite entertaining gibberish.

 

[polostar88]

Which is pretty much what you will hear from any middle class Venezuelan every time you meet them, whether you want to or not.
While true that the murder rate in Caracas is very high, it is not fair just to pick out a few bad things in Venezuela and not mention the overwhelmingly good things that he has done. Also the murder rate in Caracas has always been bad.



I've read that Iraq is safer than certain cities in the U.S. And you are supposed to be a first world country.




So in the first sentence you accuse him of using undemocratic methods (without any proof). And then in the second sentence you advocate that he should be overthrown in a coup or even murdered.



de·stroy (d-stroi)
v. de·stroyed, de·stroy·ing, de·stroys
v.tr.
1. To cut the poverty level in half
2. To eradicate illiteracy
3. To provide affordable health care to all
4. To build more schools

That must be your definition of the word destroyed right? Or care to tell us how he has destroyed Venezuela without just echoing what you heard on Fox news or from some guy on the subte?





Here are some facts for you to debate. Accomplishments of the Chavez government. Now can we get back to debating the issue?

You're truly a sad-sack and sound like a North Korean newspaper posting govt. data on the regime's "accomplishments" lol...next you'll start talking about yearly tonnage of butter produced.

What was Venezuela's growth rate this last year and how does it compare to its neighbors'?

Have you ever heard of Rhodesia and Zimbabwe, and do you know about the difference between the two? All that money and food has to come from somewhere...your cousins in Europe and the US (and now partly South Africa) understand you can't kill the goose if you want to keep robbing, but an internetz warrior like you can keep spergin' hard I guess...

 

[AlexfromLA]

The US government did try and take him out through a coup in the early 2000's. If that doesn't make a president paranoid and more radical I don't know what would.

whats this ? a little context ? I think you're in the wrong forum dude.

 

[AlexfromLA]

why are you actually putting facts and figures infront of this troll, you know he doesnt have the mental capacity to process and assimilate the data. The best he can do is toss around insults and say everybody agrees with him

lol

it would be pretty laughable if it wasnt so sad.

Which is pretty much what you will hear from any middle class Venezuelan every time you meet them, whether you want to or not.
While true that the murder rate in Caracas is very high, it is not fair just to pick out a few bad things in Venezuela and not mention the overwhelmingly good things that he has done. Also the murder rate in Caracas has always been bad.



I've read that Iraq is safer than certain cities in the U.S. And you are supposed to be a first world country.




So in the first sentence you accuse him of using undemocratic methods (without any proof). And then in the second sentence you advocate that he should be overthrown in a coup or even murdered.



de·stroy (d-stroi)
v. de·stroyed, de·stroy·ing, de·stroys
v.tr.
1. To cut the poverty level in half
2. To eradicate illiteracy
3. To provide affordable health care to all
4. To build more schools

That must be your definition of the word destroyed right? Or care to tell us how he has destroyed Venezuela without just echoing what you heard on Fox news or from some guy on the subte?





Here are some facts for you to debate. Accomplishments of the Chavez government.