Lets be positive people

[diplomacy]

Did you notice that with the oddly warm weather today that the dog shit on the side walks really made an impact on your nose?

Yes. Ironically I had to go back home because sitting in a park the "fumes" were too much to bear.

BTW, I've been here 6 months now. I was finally baptized yesterday. I stepped in my first pile of dog shit.

It was bound to happen.

When I finally go back to the states, despite all the things I like it here, I will be glad to leave the side walks behind. I consider them an obstacle course with the following obstacles:

* dog shit
* narrow
* broken sidewalks
* crowded
* bus stops
* people don't have a standard side to walk on: left or right
* crossing with your life intact
* cafe seating
* kiosks
* garage entrances
* slippery when wet
* pirate dvd sales people
* construction holes with wooden barricades
* new building construction
* tree plots
* <the dog shit deserves at least one more mention>

But if you look up on a sunny day I've never seen bluer skies. I really don't mind it here. But since this seemed to be a "bitching session" I didn't want to feel left out.

 

[diplomacy]

I am going to be 50 August 6th (just in case anyone wants to buy me a drink)!

Yes...yes...I know...my avatar photo looks great BUT you have to remember that being gay I do tend to keep myself in shape!

I'll be 51 tomorrow. There's a reason I don't have an avatar photo.

 

[diplomacy]

These broad statements classifying Argentinians one way or another are very naive.

My life here is limited to the people I work with and my land lady. I haven't made an attempt to make friends outside of work because I'm so busy and I just happen to be a loner who enjoys my personal pursuits. I'm here for my job and it is very rewarding.

But based on the people I work with (and my landlady) I must say that the percentage of people I think are warm and friendly and likable is much higher than what I experience in the states. There are a few bad eggs and I do find those numnuts to be more crazy than what I've ever seen in the states.

So maybe there are some extremes here. Just based on my own sample set (I'm a firm believer in statistics, not careless generalities) I have met many more people I think are deeply genuinue and just a few truly crazy people with warped perspectives on reality.

 

[fifs2]

I was all set to pitch in and say that 1 year is too early to judge on a place re loving it or hating it as a result of culture shock..when I saw someone here 6 years and miserable..6 years is reality, not perception for sure. When moving to work in the US I was sent on cultural sensitivity training - makes me laugh now to think of it, having moved to Sudan without training, it was infinitely easier than moving to Utah I can tell you.
Anyhow there were many useless and many interesting parts of the training but 2 things stuck with me that I always pass onto acquaintances moving to a new country
1. your brain has to work twice as hard to process even the most basic things you take for granted - traffic direction, hot/cold tap, toilet button etc that a sensation of tiredness and stress is absolutely normal for anyone and can last for months even if you speak the same language as in your new country.
2. It is normal to adore or dislike a new locale...people start with love or dislike randomly and after about 6 months veer to the opposite spectrum. Until you have passed through both adoration and dislike(or variants thereof) you aren't norming and cannot consider yourself actually perceiving the location in a realistic manner..so it is advised not to make any decisions about leaving/staying for good in this period.

Now all of this may be absolute twaddle because I'm here 6 years and have days of absolute joy and days of pure frustration...but there may be a mid/life crisis lurking in their somewhere too of course ...

 

[SaraSara]

For me, the problem is not culture shock, as I'm half Uruguayan - it is frustration and exhaustion with daily Argentine life. Each day is a battle here.

I find life in Uruguay just as frustrating, but in a different way. It is very hard to get anything done there - the locals are laid back to the point of being practically comatose. They so polite that they can't say no and always say yes, even to things they have no intention of doing.

After a few months in Uruguay I yearn for the vitality of Argentina, and after a few months in BA I yearn for the tranquility of Uruguay. Both countries have its good and bad points. Wish I could put both in a blender and get the perfect mix.

 

[HotYogaTeacher]

It's funny, expats do tend to fit certain stereotypes, just out of college doing their abroad thing, retired couples wanting to live abroad, technogeeks who can work from anywhere, corporate adventurers who took their company's offer to open a branch or bring their corporate culture to the new offices overseas. There are not a lot of middle aged people here, though gay men do seem to live overseas in this age group more Lee, people in our age group are more likely to move overseas with a partner. Don't know why other than that most people in their child bearing years think they can't afford to live overseas or don't want to have that be the experience their children have growing up, though that makes no sense to me. I am 47, my boyfriend is 34, most of our friends are his age or younger, except a gay couple we know whose ages match ours. We know few couples and almost none with children except those expats who've married locals and had kids.

All the stuff people say they like here are things I have found everywhere in the world. What changes for you here is that something about the life you make here lets it in. Where I come from people are warm and friendly and in all my life in the states as a customer and as a waitress I've never been asked to leave a table at a restaurant save once, and that was here. In San Diego I can always get a friend to take me to airport, I don't have any friends with cars here. There are beautiful homes everywhere we can walk past. The public transport IS great and cheap. The expats we know ARE amazing people, but so are expats who live anywhere, including the ones from other countries who live in your town, though they are likely called illegal immigrants and not people you would hang out with. As for asados, talking for hours, that's one of the joys of life in every city everywhere, they just don't call them asados in San Diego, they call them barbecues...

 

[laureltp]

I actually feel kind of bad for people who still post negative things on a post that's I was hoping would actually make people rethink a little and find that there were some things they liked here or they probably would have never came in the first place.

Probably my favorite thing about this city is all the things to do here. I am basically always broke, but I find that there's a million things to do for really cheap or free.

I went to a Caetano Veloso near plaza italia for free. A few months ago I visited the science museum for 3 pesos. In the past few months I went to 2 free dance concerts. A while ago I got bored and went for a walk near Plaza de Mayo and they happened to be filming a movie and that was just fun to watch. Not to mention all of the beautiful parks, and the port is a great place to relax....

I think happiness doesn't come from outside sources, I really think happiness is a choice. If you choose to be happy here, you can be.

On another note, since everyone is so upset about inflation (myself included) I was reading a study that they did to see if money really means happiness. They found that as long as you had basic needs and were not living in poverty than the amount of money you had really didn't make an impact on overall happiness. They found that people who won the lottery initially reported greater levels of happiness but eventually their happiness levels went back to normal levels.

So let's not just be positive people in Buenos Aires, but everywhere we go.

 

[syngirl]

I actually feel kind of bad for people who still post negative things on a post that's I was hoping would actually make people rethink a little and find that there were some things they liked here or they probably would have never came in the first place.

...

I think happiness doesn't come from outside sources, I really think happiness is a choice. If you choose to be happy here, you can be.

On another note, since everyone is so upset about inflation (myself included) I was reading a study that they did to see if money really means happiness. They found that as long as you had basic needs and were not living in poverty than the amount of money you had really didn't make an impact on overall happiness. They found that people who won the lottery initially reported greater levels of happiness but eventually their happiness levels went back to normal levels.

So let's not just be positive people in Buenos Aires, but everywhere we go.

I think that's great that you're so positive, but as someone else said there is a difference between being here 1 year and living here for 5 years +. It's not longer culture shock, it's just plain old life.

Those of us on the board who have been here for 5 years plus are probably in a bit of a different phase of our lives, and our perspectives on Buenos Aires are probably being shaped by different considerations.

When I came down here I was single, under-30, and had no intentions of staying beyond a few months. 5 years later I'm married to a local and contemplating having kids, and now my considerations for staying or leaving encompass not just my own, but also my husband's future, and that of our kids, should we have any.

It's one thing to grow up in Europe / North America and then choose to come here on your own as an adult having received the education and benefits of having grown up elsewhere; it's another thing to impose your choice to stay in Argentina on a child and deal with the concern that maybe, possibly, you're closing some doors to opportunities on them.

So I really like it here, I had a great weekend last weekend, the weather was fantastic, I went for a really nice bike ride all up and down the river from Olivos back to the airport, and I could list all the free activities I enjoy, but at the end of the day a walk in park, a free concert, and a coffee outside on the plaza, doesn't necessarily address the larger concerns that I know I have when it comes to deciding whether or not to raise a family here. I think that they are very common concerns that many expat/Argentine couples and families face after having been here for a good stretch.

 

[SaraSara]

Syngirl, it is true that children in Argentina don't enjoy the same educational opportunities that they would have up North.

On the other hand, here they grow up playing with their cousins and being pampered by hordes of aunts and uncles.

That counts for more than academic advantages, in my book. There is always time for children to go to college abroad later on, but there's only one chance to have a happy childhood, and I think that's more likely here.

 

[Ashley]

I think that's great that you're so positive, but as someone else said there is a difference between being here 1 year and living here for 5 years +. It's not longer culture shock, it's just plain old life.

Those of us on the board who have been here for 5 years plus are probably in a bit of a different phase of our lives, and our perspectives on Buenos Aires are probably being shaped by different considerations.

When I came down here I was single, under-30, and had no intentions of staying beyond a few months. 5 years later I'm married to a local and contemplating having kids, and now my considerations for staying or leaving encompass not just my own, but also my husband's future, and that of our kids, should we have any.

It's one thing to grow up in Europe / North America and then choose to come here on your own as an adult having received the education and benefits of having grown up elsewhere; it's another thing to impose your choice to stay in Argentina on a child and deal with the concern that maybe, possibly, you're closing some doors to opportunities on them.

So I really like it here, I had a great weekend last weekend, the weather was fantastic, I went for a really nice bike ride all up and down the river from Olivos back to the airport, and I could list all the free activities I enjoy, but at the end of the day a walk in park, a free concert, and a coffee outside on the plaza, doesn't necessarily address the larger concerns that I know I have when it comes to deciding whether or not to raise a family here. I think that they are very common concerns that many expat/Argentine couples and families face after having been here for a good stretch.

I really agree with syngirl on this one. It sounds like we're pretty much in the same boat. I first came here when I was 20...and had an excellent time. I had no real responsibilities and could dedicate myself almost completely to enjoying the experience of being abroad. I'm almost 30 now, married to an Argentine and also contemplating the possibility of having a family within the next 5 years. I still think Buenos Aires is an absolutely wonderful place to live and there are tonnes of things to feel positive about here. If there's one thing I love about being here (besides all the stuff previously mentioned on this thread), it's the availability of courses and classes to suit all budgets and tastes. There is no way I could have accessed some of the arts-type hobbies I've been able to develop here, had I stayed in the UK. I was also able to take Masters courses at La UBA which were totally out of my budget at home.
Even so, I think that there is a definite distinction between those of us who have been here just a couple of years and those who have been here much longer. I was fine with being broke, having limited professional development opportunities, dealing with inflation during my early 20's (most of my friends in London were pretty much in the same boat over there anyway). But as I enter my 30s and want different things (a home, to travel, more stability), its no longer as acceptable for me to still be dealing with this way of life.
Don't get me wrong, LaurelTP, I am still very positive about many aspects of life here in BA, I just think that this forum is often used by some of us in similar positions to vent about the not so great elements of being a long-timer here!
As far as Sarasara's comment is concerned, I am in agreement that (some) children have a lifestyle here that just doesn't exist (anymore) in Europe and the US - but I guess when you're an expat, your child is going to miss out on 1/2 of its family wherever you live! In my case, I have an enormous family in the UK...my husbands family here is tiny!