Looking Back...

[LAtoBA]

I don't understand how anyone can say living in Argentina, especially Buenos Airs, is "hard". What is so hard about it?! At least in the city, everything seems pretty damned developed to me! Despite a bit of dysfunction and chaos what makes life "hard" here?? Do you mean in the sense that it is a developing country? Really?

You want "hard" try daily rolling blackouts. "Se fue la luz", becomes a way of life. Colectivos? What are those. You want public transportation you'll have to settle for a "carro publico". A 1989 Toyota Camry, with no seatbelts, torn, greasy upholstery, and four other smelly, sweaty people, because it's 30 degrees Celsius plus with a 100% humidity and no AC......ever. A decent restaurant? They exist but mainly for the pleasure of the rich and elite since the middle class is so small.

Living in Buenos Aires has been for me at least 90% easier than the other places I have visited or lived in. Developing country and "hard" living for expats at least in the cities? Hardly.

 

[angelskywalker]

As an argentine, after reading some of the posts, I’d like to give my opinion.
First of all, I agree with all those who complain about our food not having spice or even taste. That’s just a FACT. Let’s see the pictures
1- that’s plain boiled spinach wrapped in a pancake bathed with plain tomato sauce and loads of cheese on top. Where’s the taste? Oh! Is that parsley? So theere it is!
2- Toast with cheese and oregano: that bread has seen many customers before you, that’s for sure! Someone saw that bread when it was fresh in the morning, then another customer saw it later as a nice crunchy toast and finally, before it goes oaf, it was put in the oven with a bit of oregano and cheese, VOILA!! Enjoy your appetizers! I’d rather have a bit of garlic bread, thank you very much.
3- Pasta with sea food: same old same old….. just a bit of extravaganza with sea food to make it look worth at least AR$ 40 right?
4- Sushi in Puerto Madero… the fact that it is prepared here doesn’t make it qualify as argentine food, does it?
What is asado if not plain meat grilled with perhaps a bit of salt? For ***’s sake, is that real taste?
Second of all, bureaucracy is everywhere!! It is for us locals and it’s a nightmare for foreigners (been there…..) Do you know where to get a Singleness certificate? Neither do I!! Have you been through a recruitment process? Going to endless interviews and then medical check ups and then psychological tests plus hhrr’s employees who go to your place to see how you live at home and even private investigators who stalk you without you knowing about it? Always remember that you will get your 2-week yearly holiday if and only if you work for the same company for more than 6 months and if you want a 3-week holiday, then work for the same company for 5 years and you’ll get it. And hope you don’t get sacked before working for at least a year for the same company or you’ll have to face months of bureaucracy to receive AR$ 600 for 4 months (that’s the help you’ll receive from the government) while you try to find another job. Ever tried to make a deposit in the bank or getting a bank account or complaining about a bad service?
I believe we’re tough cookies here.
If you’re lucky to get a good job, with a private medical service then lucky you! Or perhaps you can afford to have it and so, things tend to go quite seamlessly. But if you have to deal with the public system, then I feel sorry for you. Queuing at 5am in the morning to get a number at 6am and being assisted by a doctor at 8am is the least of your problems. They send you from pillow to post and hopefully sometime you will find the right queue and get an appointment for next month or so. And with some luck, you will never get injured at work, because if you do, the company your work for and the insurance company will try to get rid of you with peanuts as a compensation.
DO NOT get me wrong pls. I LOVE my country! But I’m not blind about its drawbacks, poverty, inequality, lack of opportunities and racism. We are not driven by money or cars but surviving.
We welcome and charm foreigners with our nightlife, nature, great landscapes, nice weather, wide avenues and a favourable currency exchange. The picture changes completely if you have some dosh, not many responsibilities, a good job or if you have children and you want a good future for them.
My point is:
we don't have the best food in the world. Someone called our food the 3Ps: pizza, parrilla and pasta... no wonder..!
we may have the best meat in the world like so many people say, but the breeds like Hereford that we cattle here, came from the UK aaagges ago! plus, the best bits are sold abroad...
to say that we have the best women in the world is an overstatement don't you think?

.... it's all about taste really

 

[gouchobob]

As an argentine, after reading some of the posts, I’d like to give my opinion.
First of all, I agree with all those who complain about our food not having spice or even taste. That’s just a FACT. Let’s see the pictures
1- that’s plain boiled spinach wrapped in a pancake bathed with plain tomato sauce and loads of cheese on top. Where’s the taste? Oh! Is that parsley? So theere it is!
2- Toast with cheese and oregano: that bread has seen many customers before you, that’s for sure! Someone saw that bread when it was fresh in the morning, then another customer saw it later as a nice crunchy toast and finally, before it goes oaf, it was put in the oven with a bit of oregano and cheese, VOILA!! Enjoy your appetizers! I’d rather have a bit of garlic bread, thank you very much.
3- Pasta with sea food: same old same old….. just a bit of extravaganza with sea food to make it look worth at least AR$ 40 right?
4- Sushi in Puerto Madero… the fact that it is prepared here doesn’t make it qualify as argentine food, does it?
What is asado if not plain meat grilled with perhaps a bit of salt? For ***’s sake, is that real taste?
Second of all, bureaucracy is everywhere!! It is for us locals and it’s a nightmare for foreigners (been there…..) Do you know where to get a Singleness certificate? Neither do I!! Have you been through a recruitment process? Going to endless interviews and then medical check ups and then psychological tests plus hhrr’s employees who go to your place to see how you live at home and even private investigators who stalk you without you knowing about it? Always remember that you will get your 2-week yearly holiday if and only if you work for the same company for more than 6 months and if you want a 3-week holiday, then work for the same company for 5 years and you’ll get it. And hope you don’t get sacked before working for at least a year for the same company or you’ll have to face months of bureaucracy to receive AR$ 600 for 4 months (that’s the help you’ll receive from the government) while you try to find another job. Ever tried to make a deposit in the bank or getting a bank account or complaining about a bad service?
I believe we’re tough cookies here.
If you’re lucky to get a good job, with a private medical service then lucky you! Or perhaps you can afford to have it and so, things tend to go quite seamlessly. But if you have to deal with the public system, then I feel sorry for you. Queuing at 5am in the morning to get a number at 6am and being assisted by a doctor at 8am is the least of your problems. They send you from pillow to post and hopefully sometime you will find the right queue and get an appointment for next month or so. And with some luck, you will never get injured at work, because if you do, the company your work for and the insurance company will try to get rid of you with peanuts as a compensation.
DO NOT get me wrong pls. I LOVE my country! But I’m not blind about its drawbacks, poverty, inequality, lack of opportunities and racism. We are not driven about money or cars but surviving.
We welcome and charm foreigners with our nightlife, nature, great landscapes, nice weather, wide avenues and a favourable currency exchange. The picture changes completely if you have some dosh, not many responsibilities, a good job or if you have children and you want a good future for them.
My point is:
we don't have the best food in the world. Someone called our food the 3Ps: pizza, parrilla and pasta... no wonder..!
we may have the best meat in the world like so many people say, but the breeds like Hereford that we cattle here, came from the UK aaagges ago! plus, the best bit is sold abroad...
to say that we have the best women in the world is an overstatement don't you think?

.... it's all about taste really

Thanks for the frank and honest appraisal of Argentina. It has it good and bad points just like everywhere else. Some of the posters seem a bit over the top describing it as a virtual nirvana and back home as some sort of redneck cesspool.

 

[syngirl]

I don't understand how anyone can say living in Argentina, especially Buenos Airs, is "hard". What is so hard about it?! At least in the city, everything seems pretty damned developed to me! Despite a bit of dysfunction and chaos what makes life "hard" here?? Do you mean in the sense that it is a developing country? Really?

I think when people talk about "hard" they're talking about things like the run around to:

- Trying to open a business
- Trying to maintain said business open without having to constantly pay bribes to various police and other entities
- Open a bank account
- Get an ID number
- Register their child (did you miss that thread awhile ago?)
- Pick up a package from the post / aduana
- Get their driving license
- Get or quit basic services
- Find an apartment when you don't have a garantia
- Find an apartment when you do have a garantia
- Find what you need in one store instead of 5 (or 15)
- Try to buy a house / apartment
- Try to buy a car
- Try to sell either or both of the above
- Try to bring money / items into the country
- Trying to find an honest lawyer / accountant etc
- Trying to get a mortgage or loan
- Trying to get a raise at work beyond one that reflects inflation
- Trying to get an Argentine passport (for a child born here is usually the case for foreigners)
- Trying to get to work without encountering 5 manifestos and subte strikes
- Trying to get out of town on a weekend without encountering same manifestos and strikes
- Find decent prices on items, rather than have to pay 4x as much for worse quality

There aren't rolling blackouts etc like you refer to, but there is a huge runaround here that you don't encounter in the States. If you live in an expat bubble where you rent apartments from other foreigners or english-speaking owners, where you find said apartments online, where the only "tramites" you ever do are paying your bills at rapi-pago and hopping on a boat to Uruguay to renew your tourist visa, you won't encounter many problems here.

The longer you live here and the more involucrated you get in Argentina the more tramites you have to go through, the more headaches, the harder it is -- and locals will agree with you -- they'll laugh at you if you tell them life is easy here.

When I first arrived I couldn't believe people would have to take the whole morning (or day) off of work to perform a simple tramite -- now I know better, I've had countless days lost standing in lines, doing the runaround for things that at home could be accomplished with a single phone call, email, or 5 min stop -- not hours on end.

I'm not a business owner here -- but if you follow DavidGlen I believe it is, you'll see the headaches he's had. Nigel from 0800 has been through the wringer as well, and don't even ask about the guys from Sugar.

As someone who just lives a normal life here, I can already say that life can be very frustrating, with lots of headaches -- I can't imagine being a business owner here.

 

[gouchobob]

I think when people talk about "hard" they're talking about things like the run around to:

- Trying to open a business
- Trying to maintain said business open without having to constantly pay bribes to various police and other entities
- Open a bank account
- Get an ID number
- Register their child (did you miss that thread awhile ago?)
- Pick up a package from the post / aduana
- Get their driving license
- Get or quit basic services
- Find an apartment when you don't have a garantia
- Find an apartment when you do have a garantia
- Find what you need in one store instead of 5 (or 15)
- Try to buy a house / apartment
- Try to buy a car
- Try to sell either or both of the above
- Try to bring money / items into the country
- Trying to find an honest lawyer / accountant etc
- Trying to get a mortgage or loan
- Trying to get a raise at work beyond one that reflects inflation
- Trying to get an Argentine passport (for a child born here is usually the case for foreigners)
- Trying to get to work without encountering 5 manifestos and subte strikes
- Trying to get out of town on a weekend without encountering same manifestos and strikes
- Find decent prices on items, rather than have to pay 4x as much for worse quality

There aren't rolling blackouts etc like you refer to, but there is a huge runaround here that you don't encounter in the States. If you live in an expat bubble where you rent apartments from other foreigners or english-speaking owners, where you find said apartments online, where the only "tramites" you ever do are paying your bills at rapi-pago and hopping on a boat to Uruguay to renew your tourist visa, you won't encounter many problems here.

The longer you live here and the more involucrated you get in Argentina the more tramites you have to go through, the more headaches, the harder it is -- and locals will agree with you -- they'll laugh at you if you tell them life is easy here.

When I first arrived I couldn't believe people would have to take the whole morning (or day) off of work to perform a simple tramite -- now I know better, I've had countless days lost standing in lines, doing the runaround for things that at home could be accomplished with a single phone call, email, or 5 min stop -- not hours on end.

I'm not a business owner here -- but if you follow DavidGlen I believe it is, you'll see the headaches he's had. Nigel from 0800 has been through the wringer as well, and don't even ask about the guys from Sugar.

As someone who just lives a normal life here, I can already say that life can be very frustrating, with lots of headaches -- I can't imagine being a business owner here.

The difference can be explained by realizing some people are actually trying to make a life here and that there are other people that are here really on a short-term basis in temporary furnished apartments living off cash withdrawn from ATM machines. The latter folks never really run into the challenges of day to day living in Argentina. They don't know what the fuss is about.

 

[syngirl]

GouchoBob - exactly.

Here's a bit of a smile:

Actual text message just received from my husband (on his way home from Bahia Blanca via Aeroparque)

"Just landed. But we can not leave the plane because the buses are in strike. See you soon... maybe"

Me: "jeezus"

Him: "Not jesus. This is argentina remember. LOL"

 

[starlucia]

I don't understand how anyone can say living in Argentina, especially Buenos Airs, is "hard". What is so hard about it?! At least in the city, everything seems pretty damned developed to me! Despite a bit of dysfunction and chaos what makes life "hard" here?? Do you mean in the sense that it is a developing country? Really?

You want "hard" try daily rolling blackouts. "Se fue la luz", becomes a way of life. Colectivos? What are those. You want public transportation you'll have to settle for a "carro publico". A 1989 Toyota Camry, with no seatbelts, torn, greasy upholstery, and four other smelly, sweaty people, because it's 30 degrees Celsius plus with a 100% humidity and no AC......ever. A decent restaurant? They exist but mainly for the pleasure of the rich and elite since the middle class is so small.

Living in Buenos Aires has been for me at least 90% easier than the other places I have visited or lived in. Developing country and "hard" living for expats at least in the cities? Hardly.

OK, but we're comparing Buenos Aires to the USA, so yes. About 750% harder.

 

[LAtoBA]

I think when people talk about "hard" they're talking about things like the run around to:

- Trying to open a business

Okay. But I would argue opening a business in any country in which you were not born is going to be hard. Or at the very least it won't be easy.

- Trying to maintain said business open without having to constantly pay bribes to various police and other entities

True. But, really, I can't imagine the average expat is a business owner in Argentina. I just don't see that so I think that's a moot point.

- Get an ID number

True.

- Register their child (did you miss that thread awhile ago?)

I don't have children and not wanting any at the moment so I avoid child related threads.

- Pick up a package from the post / aduana

Yes that is a challenge here but I don't see how that would make living here "hard" or difficult unless you're dependent on care packages and things from abroad on a monthly basis.

- Get their driving license

Again, how many expats on this board own a car and drive it regularly?? I would argue that the vast majority do not.

- Get or quit basic services

Didn't feel like going through the rest line by line. But yes if everyone is comparing life in Argentina to the US then yes, it is more difficult. But for those who have lived outside of Europe, the US, and Australia I'm pretty sure they would agree, it's a cake walk compared to other places. I guess it just depends on your tolerance level or what you've grown accustomed too.
[/QUOTE]

 

[tomdesigns]

I seriously applaud you. That is awesome!!!!

I have to tell you that I would give all the credit to this culture and Argentina. But I am not in BA..

The weight just came off I did not have to work at it.. I really believe it is because of natural food. I almost never eat processed anymore even when I eat out. I first noticed this my first time here. That when I ate the food I was not hungry again for 8 to 10 hours. I attribute that to the natural food.

For 10 years in the US I agonized with diet after diet and this plan and that plan. This diet food and that diet food all to no results... It was like a frustrating dream that I could not work out no matter how hard I tried.

Its funny that my friends in the US tell me I should open a health resort in Argentina for Americans... Juaa aja jaaj aaaa

Now if I lived in BSAS I am not sure.. because I have noticed some processed food there..

But here even the papa fritas are always natural and fresh in all the restaurants.

Also I am a meat lover.. and there is plenty of meat around all the time so it seems my carbs are much lower by default.

Even the deserts here.. typically fruit salad or other natural healthy things. Not a double chocolate brownie with fudge sauce!

My fiances mother cooks the most incredible things with fruit and uses only the fruit she does slam 2 cups of sugar into everything she cooks, she works with the flavor of the food. That woman can turn two potatoes and an onion along with some ham, eggs and some fresh spices into miracle.

And if you think about it, either in terms of evolution or creationism our bodies are not built to consume processed food, including sugar, flour and many other things that are natural things made unnatural thru a process.

 

[perry]

Okay. But I would argue opening a business in any country in which you were not born is going to be hard. Or at the very least it won't be easy.



True. But, really, I can't imagine the average expat is a business owner in Argentina. I just don't see that so I think that's a moot point.




True.



I don't have children and not wanting any at the moment so I avoid child related threads.



Yes that is a challenge here but I don't see how that would make living here "hard" or difficult unless you're dependent on care packages and things from abroad on a monthly basis.



Again, how many expats on this board own a car and drive it regularly?? I would argue that the vast majority do not.



Didn't feel like going through the rest line by line. But yes if everyone is comparing life in Argentina to the US then yes, it is more difficult. But for those who have lived outside of Europe, the US, and Australia I'm pretty sure they would agree, it's a cake walk compared to other places. I guess it just depends on your tolerance level or what you've grown accustomed too.

[/quote]


Your posts are a breath of fresh air and completety true . In every country of the world opening a business as a foreigner is very difficult . I do not believe that Argentina is more difficult than the USA or Europe in that regard just its more time consuming .

Buenos Aires is a city to be enjoyed and one that lives for enjoyment . Go out in the night and see the full restaurants and clubs that do allow one to enjoy without being made to spend monies just consuming . There is a plethora of culture here that is available free of charge and even at 6 am in the morning you can visit a nightclub and have coffee at a myriad of coffee shops. Life for many here is exciting and relaxing at the same time it just depends how you handle the stresses of everyday life.