Looming Gov't Crackdown On Unofficial $$ Exchange?

[Matiasba]

Having lived in Argentina for number of years and other locations in South America I would suggest taking a look at Uruguay. Argentina is an incredible country and you can visit all you want from Uruguay while enjoying legal dollar access among many other benefits. Residency is straight forward and fairly easy to obtain.

Major Perks

The power almost never goes out.

Medical is better. Something to consider seriously in the later years.

The coast starting at about Punta Del Este going to Brazil is pristine.

Political environment is better. You won’t find the same Anti-USA rhetoric.

Uruguayans are well educated and a significantly higher percentage of the population speaks English compared to Argentina.

Little perks

You won’t spend an hour in line that grocery store with just 3 people in front of you.

You can buy many products you won’t find in Argentina. Such as horse radish, good peanut butter, tartar sauce, decent pickles, guacamole, V8, A1 steak sauce, Arizona Ice Tea, Monterey Jack Cheese, Cheddar Cheese, I will end the list here but it’s a long one. None the less you will be hard pressed to find such a selection of 1[sup]st[/sup] world taste perks in Argentina.

Cons

It is more expensive but then again the infrastructure works. Like they say you get what you pay for.

*Lines are a lot longer there than here. In all Uruguay, including MVD, the pace is waaay slower than in BsAs or any big city. To go and buy something takes normally two times compared to BsAs. Also, as in Argentina interior, you have sacred siesta.

*People are as educated as in BsAs, both have the exact same public education model, they were born together, they are practically the same.

*The power in Uruguay rarely goes out but is like 5 times more expensive.

*Medical is a lot worst in Uruguay, and a lot more expensive. Doctors in Uruguay are not as recognised as here, uruguayan upper classes come here to BsAs to get some doctor appointment. BsAs healthcare, even the public, is far better than uruguayan. And cheaper.

*Uruguay have the same USA rhetoric, like all over Latin America, they had dictatorship and desaparecidos supported by the US. Besides, I dont think that is a big deal here in Argentina.

* It is significantly more expensive life in Uruguay than in Argentina. Unless you live in MVD, and even there, you will need a car and gas is 3 times more than in Argentina. Life is more than the double than in Argentina, so you will be living half as well as here.

*Uruguay is very tranquil (although insecurity is increasing) but very BORING. Chato, as we say.

 

[ajoknoblauch]

*The power in Uruguay rarely goes out but is like 5 times more expensive.

If you prefer free blackouts to realistically priced energy, you deserve to get what you pay for.

 

[Matiasba]

who the hell talked about my preferences?

 

[Zorawar]

Many thanks, everyone for your helpful replies. Concerning Uruguay vs. Argentina: having actually lived in MVD for a time I can report that I found the Uruguayos reserved but charming; the windy marine climate of MVD a bit too chilly except for high summer; the generally progressive politics inspiring; the relative calm of the capital very relaxing. If I were a typical, upper-middle class US retiree, I'd settle in MVD's barrio Pocitos or Carrasco in a heartbeat -- but as a more bohemian young senior, living on modest means, the somewhat chaotic but affordable life of Buenos Aires seems more realistic. Thanks for reading.

 

[ElQueso]

The government currently does everything it can (even [or specifically] to the detriment of the country) to mess with the black market dollar. However, the raids are pretty small beans compared to them reducing the banks' dollar reserves to flood the market with dollars, and apparently a loan from China which recently flooded the market yet again.

I wouldn't worry about the raids by AFIP on the arbolitos and such. Most of the cuevas are fairly secure against such problems as raids but are affected by the dollar gluts the government uses to try to control the price of the dollar. Raids on the arbolitos are short-term problems (happens on a fairly regular basis, maybe a coupe of times every other month or so) and there are many places where you can change the blue dollar that aren't that likely to get raided.

I went to change money today and nearly s**t myself when, on DolarBlue.net they were listing 14 and the cueva would only pay 13.3 (I'm usually within .05 - .10 on my estimates when looking on the internet before I go to change money). This after about a month ago the price was nearly 16. I asked the guy at the arbolito where I went what the deal was and he responded that the money from China is currently being used to keep the blue price down, but that it can't lost too long and expect the price to soar to 18 or better once the effect ends. Don't expect any arbolitos at least today and maybe for the next day or two to pay what is listed on the internet.

But your biggest problem in living down here will be getting dollars themselves into the country. Whatever you can bring with you is great, but later, trying to get money in Dollars into the country, is a bit more difficult. Many people who live here and bring in money from the outside spend an inordinate amount of time fretting over how to get dollars in.

To me, the best way is to make a deal with someone who has pesos and/or dollars here and wants to get them out of the country - i.e., they have a bank account outside Argentina. Businesses can be a good place to find that. Or, you can use a cueva (those who are really cuevas and not just knots in the arbolito hierarchy) will allow you to send the money to a bank outside Argentina and they will give you money here - but the cost for that has reached 5-6% of the transfer nowadays in many (if not most) cases.

Another way are places like Xoom, who kill you on the transfer rate, will never give you dollars, and also give (at least some) people who do regular transfers problems and the ability to transfer money with them may dry up. Others go to Uruguay (most notably Colonia) and pay the ferry fare, ATM fees and time itself, to get dollars from the machines there.

 

[ElQueso]

And BTW - affordability here is relative, and where you're coming from exactly. Totally depends on how bad inflation is (independent sources put it at or above 40% currently) and how well the black market dollar is doing. Particularly if you are on a fixed income. I've seen some people saying how much cheaper it is to live here (typically people from places like New York or San Francisco), where I find the prices to be about the same (I'm from Houston, and when I go to visit my folks, who live in St Louis, I still see prices about the same as here, obviously with some variance).

If you are looking at a retirement/rentista visa (I'm assuming) and are thinking that you will be able to get your income here officially via that means, it's true enough, but you will get hit bad by conversions between dollars and pesos here as you will only see the official rate. I don't think they will allow you to transfer the dollars directly into dollars here, but if they do, you will get hit by a double transfer from dollars to pesos into the country and then conversion back to dollars into your account, with the fees associated. And then, as I understand, getting actual dollars out of your account may be problematic.

Life CAN be affordable here, but it's not easy to find that affordability.

As I've said many times, I feel bad for everyone who is earning in pesos here because they are those who are hardest hit by all of this mess, but we who have dollars have our own set of problems (though yes, I'd rather have those than earning in pesos).

 

[Zorawar]

To Queso: as a matter of fact, I am retiring from
Über-expensive San Francisco where I've lived since 1976. Long gone is the quirky, bohemian and politically city it once was -- nowadays it is more reminiscent of a California version of Singapore. The poor artists and creative types have fled, replaced by legions of 20-something's who don't seem to mind living in high rise closets on their 6-figure salaries. But, well -- it's there time now, as my generation had theirs, and I'm hoping shambling charms and eccentric character -- and MUCH lower costs relative to SF -- could be my new funky, interesting place to live in retirement. It's worth a try, I reckon.

 

[Zorawar]

Oops ... excuse typos, etc., above -- don't see an edit option post posting ...

 

[Gringoboy]

The cheddar cheese got me too

 

[ElQueso]

To Queso: as a matter of fact, I am retiring from
Über-expensive San Francisco where I've lived since 1976. Long gone is the quirky, bohemian and politically city it once was -- nowadays it is more reminiscent of a California version of Singapore. The poor artists and creative types have fled, replaced by legions of 20-something's who don't seem to mind living in high rise closets on their 6-figure salaries. But, well -- it's there time now, as my generation had theirs, and I'm hoping shambling charms and eccentric character -- and MUCH lower costs relative to SF -- could be my new funky, interesting place to live in retirement. It's worth a try, I reckon.

Yeah, you would definitely find it cheaper here under most circumstances!