Lower-Cost Alternatives to BA?

[mariano-BCN]

Hi Joe, yes, I went end last year to Barcelona to visit friends and have an impression how life was changing under the crisis. I was shocked: things are terrible there, I had the same feeling I had before in Argentina just before the crisis of 2001. Things won't get that bad 'cause Spain is in the EU and will get much more help coming years. But unemployment is huge, the overall level of public services (transport, metro, public health but also "small things" like cleaning the city etc) has decreased. I used to live in Barcelona between 2005 and 2010 and founded it hard to see how life has deteriorated.
And if this happens to Barcelona, one of the richest cities in Spain, how would it be elsewhere? Andalusia is the poorest area in Spain, I think things are much worse there. Even Dutch people I know who live in the bubble of pensionados-villages like Benidorm, Altea, Denia, are telling in sites on internet quality of life has decreased 'cause they are affected also by the level of poverty of their clients, less communal life, cutting public services, less "alegria de vivir". They're al private ensure but notice that even in private clinics quality has decreased much.
All the contrary I founded in Medellin, where daily-costs are low, quality of life is good, climate is great (never to cold neither too warm), the metro is functioning very good, there's positiveness, culture is great (the American Combo has this month a excellent cinema-festival with the best movies of 2012), health-system is very good and the city is clean. Without doubt is the kindness of "antioqueños" is the big plus, forget the rudeness of porteños, forget the feeling people are seeing you as an ATM, here even shopkeepers tell you where you may find things they don't have at this moment. Would you find such an attitude in BsArs?
I've to be this year for long in BsArs again and I'm already suffering of leaving this city. :-(

 

[surfing]

Was in Ecuador over a year ago, traveling into cities that were supposed to be an Eternal Spring (perfect place for retirement) plus easy access to a medical, Quito and Cuenca are not an ideal for Eternal Spring but COLD and that was in the Summer, what would it be like in the winter. Banos, the hot spring area is ok, pleasant place and lovely temperature, but to live there, guess not. Along the coast, Montanita is the best, lovely place, warm water and cheap, but the nearest hospital is 3 hours by car.

Lima and Baranco, along the coastline, beautiful, low cost and great food. The water is cold and winter is also cold with no heating. I was there for 5 months.

Heat and Could. Panama, on the Pacific Coast is great.

There is no summer or winter in Ecuador; only wet or dry seasons. The temperature does not fluctuate significantly (more than a degree or two) but is virtually the same all year.

 

[fifs2]

Hi Joe, yes, I went end last year to Barcelona to visit friends and have an impression how life was changing under the crisis. I was shocked: things are terrible there, I had the same feeling I had before in Argentina just before the crisis of 2001. Things won't get that bad 'cause Spain is in the EU and will get much more help coming years. But unemployment is huge, the overall level of public services (transport, metro, public health but also "small things" like cleaning the city etc) has decreased. I used to live in Barcelona between 2005 and 2010 and founded it hard to see how life has deteriorated.
And if this happens to Barcelona, one of the richest cities in Spain, how would it be elsewhere? Andalusia is the poorest area in Spain, I think things are much worse there. Even Dutch people I know who live in the bubble of pensionados-villages like Benidorm, Altea, Denia, are telling in sites on internet quality of life has decreased 'cause they are affected also by the level of poverty of their clients, less communal life, cutting public services, less "alegria de vivir". They're al private ensure but notice that even in private clinics quality has decreased much.
All the contrary I founded in Medellin, where daily-costs are low, quality of life is good, climate is great (never to cold neither too warm), the metro is functioning very good, there's positiveness, culture is great (the American Combo has this month a excellent cinema-festival with the best movies of 2012), health-system is very good and the city is clean. Without doubt is the kindness of "antioqueños" is the big plus, forget the rudeness of porteños, forget the feeling people are seeing you as an ATM, here even shopkeepers tell you where you may find things they don't have at this moment. Would you find such an attitude in BsArs?
I've to be this year for long in BsArs again and I'm already suffering of leaving this city. :-(

I think what you're describing for Barcelona, the burst of a bubble, the end of the bon viveur times that Barcelona and cities like Dublin experienced in the boom times. See my post on life in Andalusia as we're living it. Things are good but that's from the expectation of living a good life with friends and family and having an external income source. It sure isn't a party anymore in most parts of Spain...but is anywhere in Europe living those hedonistic days anymore? Maybe places in Columbia, Peru or the Far east are where the next expat party will be taking place. FYI my friend is a university lecturer in Barcelona. For her life is the same as before the crisis as she's beyond the party age...she's Argentinean and hates her own country with a passion but she's equally disparaging about the low level of Spanish education before the crisis...We all have opinions, take them as you will.

 

[polostar88]

People keep talking about how low apt. prices are in Spain. Do you have any resources for that? I keep looking, and on craigslist it's 90% scams or actually prices that are quite high. I also looked on this website called segundamano, and prices seem quite high, especially for Madrid (huge prices in fact). On craigslist there are next to no entries for cities like Cadiz.

If any of you can recommend an online resource for looking up apts., I'd be grateful...

 

[steveinbsas]

People keep talking about how low apt. prices are in Spain. Do you have any resources for that? I keep looking, and on craigslist it's 90% scams or actually prices that are quite high. I also looked on this website called segundamano, and prices seem quite high, especially for Madrid (huge prices in fact). On craigslist there are next to no entries for cities like Cadiz.

If any of you can recommend an online resource for looking up apts., I'd be grateful.

I used google and entered departamentos alquiler cadiz españa:

The cheapest I found is 38 euros per night:

http://www.tripadvisor.es/VacationRentalReview-g187432-d3287074-Apartamento_tipo_loft-Cadiz_Costa_de_la_Luz_Andalucia.html

Here are others in Cadiz:

http://erasmusu.com/es/erasmus-cadiz/alquiler-estudiantes

http://www.niumba.com/andalucia/cadiz/apartamentos/cadiz (looks like nightly rentals for tourists)

http://www.apartamentocadiz.blogspot.com.ar/p/english.html

 

[lamarque]

I have considered Portugal but since I struggled to just reach basic Spanish proficiency, I don't want to try to learn Portuguese. I still plan to visit but think I would only be there for a short time.

Regarding Columbia, I do plan to visit in the coming years. And the City of Eternal Spring is at the top of the list. Equador is probably at the very top of the list, because I get the impression that Columbia still has a lingering violent crime problem. I know it has improved a lot since the drug wars. Maybe BA has overtaken Columbia in violent crime at this time? I really enjoyed my four months in Peru several years ago and would love to revisit Cusco and Lima.

I hate tropical weather - the reason Central America, Thailand, Vietnam are only short term, winter destinations.

No Colombia is still between the 4 most dangerous country's in America and surpass Argentina in violent crimes such as murders and kidnapping (specially focused on rich people and foreigners) by a modic 400% the good think is that crime is lowering year by year but not fast enought (they were in first position in violent crimes just 8 years ago now they are better) and there is somehow less pickpocketing and petty crime than in buenos aires, the difference is that Colombian are not as paranoid's about it as Argentinian are. But hey who cares as long as no body talk to you about lol

 

[glasgowjohn]

for you guys looking to rent in Spain , this page will give you a pretty good idea of rental prices in each city

www.fotocasa.es

 

[Mano Negra]

I agree. The thing is, there are most of these aspects elsewhere and for less cost. I've noticed that before, but it's been a while and that's why I was checking in to see what others might have to say for recent info.

Also yes, sometimes finances (limited) can in fact be the determining factor. Basically, if I made more, I would just stay for the several reasons you mentioned Tez.

Just to add, I lived in Europe when I could afford it and only in my honest opinion, BA can't even compare to several spots there (minus the lax immigration of course). It truly is like night and day. Hard to explain unless a person has lived in both locations. But BA is BA, it's own place and that's totally fine. I didn't come looking for Europe or Asia of course. This time around I underestimated the impact of the inflation.

There are many people in the world living where they are and what is the number one reason for them? Finances (lack of in this case). So yes it can be a large factor. It's not that like like being on that type of budget, or that they would not desire to live in places that are more costly to them, it simply what is.

We've met the ones that want to go to the US, Europe, Canada, Australia, etc., but can't. And their reason is simply they can not afford it.

Not sure where in Europe you are referring to. I'm a Londoner and lived in France and also used to go to Frankfurt, Geneva, Zurich, Paris and various other places about twice a month. London closes at 11.00. Free culture on the scale you have in BA is comparatively non-existent. If someone just set up their rockband and started playing outside as I saw on the Costanera Sur yesterday (they were pretty good and drew a big crowd) they would probably be arrested. This summer the health and safety people switched off Bruce Springsteen and Paul Macartney because they played past their 10.30 pm deadline. Imagine that happening here. Impossible!!!! Paris is so boring that the authorities are trying to come up with strategies to make it less boring as the tourists aren't going anymore. Frankfurt, please. Switzerland, I don't think so. Possibly Madrid has the same movida as BA but is relatively expensive with enormously high unemployment. The government of BA organises 100 big outdoor events in the 6 weeks of summer. A lot of them are excellent. Where else does that?

 

[Joe]

Regarding Panama. Panama City is hot and humid 12 months a year. It is also not a walkable city IMO. You need a car to visit the beaches and the cool mountains. And temporary accommodation is expensive. For a LOT of people Panama is great but it's not for me. The car kills my budget. I'm looking for a town or small city with a historic center with a reasonable cost of living and mild weather: Cadiz, Cusco, Cuenca, Quito meet that criteria. Cadiz would be too hot in the summer for me though.

Equador being cold is OK with me - I know I'm in the minority - but I prefer 15 degrees to 30 degrees. Especially when the 30 degrees come with high humidity. I never experienced a BA summer - I escaped to Bariloche and Mar del Plata once the temperature approached 25!

 

[Joe]

for you guys looking to rent in Spain , this page will give you a pretty good idea of rental prices in each city

www.fotocasa.es

Thanks John, That's a great site!

Here's an example of a 450 Euro rental - two bedrooms - that would be good for two or three people. Seems to be centrally located, furnished:
http://www.fotocasa....on=1&RowGrid=13

The only issue is whether how many of these places will take short term rentals - one month... If you search on Alquirer Vacacional the prices jump. Some places like Asia you can get much better prices in person - because the owner is always onsite. In BA they prefer you book online. Not sure how Spain works

One advantage of Buenos Aires is that it is very easy to find short term apartment rentals....