Macri cheats, fight fire with fire

Redpossum

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So Macri has hired 400 buses to bring a mob of his supporters to demonstrate outside the courthouse where he is to appear in Dolores. And Alberto is apparently going to let him get away with that.

If I was an advisor to the President, I would say this-

This is a naked threat of force, and you cannot let it pass without challenge or you will lose control of the country. Force must be met with force. Macri plans to bring 400 buses full of his supporters, very well, you must obtain 1200 buses. Call out your most militant of La Campora, and the roughest of the CGT, and send them to confront the macristas face to face. Make sure the signs they carry are mounted on stout sticks, and do what you must to be sure the cops don't interfere. This isn't an academic debate, Mr President, this is politics in the third world, and if you wish to win, you must be willing to fight fire with fire.

If you don't wish to give the orders yourself, then call Anibal Fernandez into your office and tell him, "handle this". Then afterward, you can pretend to be shocked, like The Inspector in Casablanca -

I am shocked, shocked I say, to learn that there has been gambling here!
Your winnings, sir
Oh, thank you.


Or, if you are utterly unwilling to go this route, then skip the buses, and just send the Prefectura in massive force, and let them do what they do best. Again, you have the option to say afterward that your subordinates exceeded their orders, acted without your knowledge, blah blah blah, all the usual mouthings that leaders use to disown unpleasantness.

But Mr President, you cannot allow this challenge to go unanswered. People are sheep. Show them strength, and they will follow you. Show weakness, and they will turn away from you in disgust. Do something, Mr President, or you will lose this election, and you will lose Argentina. And then the people will suffer, because you were not willing to do what was necessary in order to win. The constitution gives you great power, use it or lose it.
 

antipodean

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Macri? An ex-President who doesn’t even hold public office or immunity? He is worth inciting violence over? (Or even getting on a bus for?) It’s illegal to protest outside a court house? Are his supporters the only ones to do such things?

As for your “advice” to the president, I am not sure if you are being ironic or have been swept up by a momentary fit of rage, paranoia and hatred, but calling in the brown-shirts to violently intimidate or harm anyone from another side who dares to peacefully demonstrate is criminal, fascist and above all, never solves a thing.

If Alberto wants votes and credibility, Alberto needs to own his words and decisions and deliver some real results. It’s really that simple. A handful of “macristas on micros” ain’t going to change things any more than a bus load of “Cristinistas with chori-pan” would.
 

Redpossum

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I don't believe a thing published in Pagina 12, well known as a Kirchner publication.



 

Redpossum

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Macri? An ex-President who doesn’t even hold public office or immunity? He is worth inciting violence over? (Or even getting on a bus for?) It’s illegal to protest outside a court house? Are his supporters the only ones to do such things?

As for your “advice” to the president, I am not sure if you are being ironic or have been swept up by a momentary fit of rage, paranoia and hatred, but calling in the brown-shirts to violently intimidate or harm anyone from another side who dares to peacefully demonstrate is criminal, fascist and above all, never solves a thing.

If Alberto wants votes and credibility, Alberto needs to own his words and decisions and deliver some real results. It’s really that simple. A handful of “macristas on micros” ain’t going to change things any more than a bus load of “Cristinistas with chori-pan” would.

Antipodean, your words are calm, rational, and civilized. Politics in Argentina is not any of these things.

My advice isn't founded in rage or paranoia or hatred, but stems from a cold-blooded appraisal of the situation, and a knowledge of history. Look at what BLM and Antifa have done in the USA in the last 18 months, because the police were not allowed to confront them. There is a time for restraint and calm patience, and then there is a time for bold and ruthless action.

Whether tis nobler in the mind to suffer the cruel slings and arrows of outrageous fortune,
or to take arms against a sea of troubles, and by opposing the them


Alberto needs to stop dithering like Hamlet. While I'm slinging quotes around, here's one from Machiavelli -

A man who wishes to make a profession of goodness in all things, must of necessity come to a bad end among so many who are not good.
 

antipodean

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Antipodean, your words are calm, rational, and civilized. Politics in Argentina is not any of these things.

My advice isn't founded in rage or paranoia or hatred, but stems from a cold-blooded appraisal of the situation, and a knowledge of history. Look at what BLM and Antifa have done in the USA in the last 18 months, because the police were not allowed to confront them. There is a time for restraint and calm patience, and then there is a time for bold and ruthless action.

Whether tis nobler in the mind to suffer the cruel slings and arrows of outrageous fortune,
or to take arms against a sea of troubles, and by opposing the them


Alberto needs to stop dithering like Hamlet. While I'm slinging quotes around, here's one from Machiavelli -

A man who wishes to make a profession of goodness in all things, must of necessity come to a bad end among so many who are not good.
Let's not get carried away with fantasy here.

Violent BLM and Antifa riots are not a thing here. What happens wherever you or I are from is not relevant to an Argentine perspective.
There is a reason Argentina is peaceful and enjoys higher levels of security versus other countries in the region, despite the same massive inequality and poverty. The overwhelming majority of Argentines are repulsed by violence - most parents would never even consider spanking their children, for example. It is a social value and it is different to other countries. Scenes of violence do more to repel rather than attract support. Hence regardless of what side of the grieta people fall on the phrase "nunca más" is something that everyone except the extreme fringes and most sinister parts of society can agree on.

Imagining a bus full of cheto "Macristas" who actually care enough to go and demonstrate behaving like the below video and breaking the law three years ago when Ks rioted against proposed pension reforms (which coincidentally were later passed into law by this K government) ... I'll believe it when I see it. Then we will talk what a rational response should be as well as double standards.

 
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Redpossum

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Let's not get carried away with fantasy here.

Violent BLM and Antifa riots are not a thing here. What happens wherever you or I are from is not relevant to an Argentine perspective.

Imagining a bus full of cheto "Macristas" who actually care enough to go and demonstrate behaving like the below video and breaking the law three years ago when Ks rioted against proposed pension reforms (which coincidentally were later passed into law by this K government) ... I'll believe it when I see it. Then we will talk what a rational response should be as well as double standards.


Well, antipodean, you make a valid point in saying that this isn't like the USA.
And that's a fascinating video. The civilians show a surprising degree of tactical sense, using their barricades well, and then retreating when the cops advance. It's almost like they have experience at this sort of thing, eh?

I don't agree with it, but this comes right out of the K playbook. Interesting that they are suddenly upset over the tactic.

Dougie, you are absolutely 100% correct. This is straight out of the Peronist playbook. Because it works. Because that's how you win. And that is exactly why I say that Alberto must meet this challenge head on and crush it, or lose the country. Because this isn't about being fair or rational or logically consistent. It's about winning, and doing what it takes to win.
 

antipodean

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Well, antipodean, you make a valid point in saying that this isn't like the USA.
And that's a fascinating video. The civilians show a surprising degree of tactical sense, using their barricades well, and then retreating when the cops advance. It's almost like they have experience at this sort of thing, eh?
Of course they do, they are militants.
Just like the Mapuches and others they have handbooks for this kind of thing. Literally.
The result: FDT overwhelmingly lost Rio Negro and Neuquen where this issue is "hot" in the PASO and are set to loose again because they are widely seen as sympathisers and enablers to this kind of violence that interferes negatively in peoples lives.

By saying to fight fire with fire you might as well come out and say the dictadura was right in its tactics, even if its economics was not to your taste. But then again look at the result today, an impotent military and a nunca más culture rejecting that kind of thing. Tried and failed.



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Dougie

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K Protesters = Resistors to fascism

PRO Protesters = Golpistas

Ks are a lot more clever when it comes to political fighting. I wouldn't be worried Red.
 
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