Multi-year Spanish School; Citizenship

Thanks, yeah, I was pretty set on the idea of going the direct citizenship application route, but I wanted to at least intellectually explore the idea of the student visa to make sure my citizenship approval chances were as high as possible. Thus, I wanted to find a multi-year Spanish school, as I don't think I could muster the drive to show up at any other type of degree or form of study. Sounds like it doesn't exist. No biggie.

Good to know that living without the DNI isn't too much of a hassle. If I end up getting married though I'd question what went wrong with future me ;)
A citizenship point:

Be aware if you attain Argentine citizenship (while maintaining citizenship from your native country) The Argentine Government considers you to be an Argentine citizen when you are on Argentine soil. Your native citizenship, if maintained, has no standing in their eyes. In some cases, Permanent residency could be more attractive. It has been talked down here on many spots / threads, because you can do a lot of the obvious things a citizen can do, such as vote.
 
A citizenship point:

Be aware if you attain Argentine citizenship (while maintaining citizenship from your native country) The Argentine Government considers you to be an Argentine citizen when you are on Argentine soil. Your native citizenship, if maintained, has no standing in their eyes. In some cases, Permanent residency could be more attractive. It has been talked down here on many spots / threads, because you can do a lot of the obvious things a citizen can do, such as vote.
Last sentence of my post should have read:

"It has been talked down here on many spots / threads, because you can NOT do a lot of the obvious things a citizen can do, such as vote.
 

steveinbsas

Registered
Last sentence of my post should have read: "It has been talked down here on many spots / threads, because you can NOT do a lot of the obvious things a citizen can do, such as vote.
Actually, based on my own experience, permanent residents of Argentina are "obligated" to vote in all but the presidential elections.

The only "obvious" thing that immediately comes to mind regarding things a permanent resident can't do (as opposed to an Argentine citizen) is obtain an Argentine passport (which would enable travel to a few countries my US passport wouldn't?).

I was never told I could not do anything else because I wasn't an Argentine citizen, but I would be interested in knowing about any of the things I can't. Having a DNI as a temporary and then a permanent resident was always sufficient.

PS: I think there may be some additonal requirements (number of years) for a PR to receive benefits from PAMI, but I have not paid anything into the system and I would not try to obtain those benefits, even I was elegible. .
 
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SecretShopper

Registered
A citizenship point:

Be aware if you attain Argentine citizenship (while maintaining citizenship from your native country) The Argentine Government considers you to be an Argentine citizen when you are on Argentine soil. Your native citizenship, if maintained, has no standing in their eyes. In some cases, Permanent residency could be more attractive. It has been talked down here on many spots / threads, because you can do a lot of the obvious things a citizen can do, such as vote.
I don't see how that's a negative thing. If they don't recognize your other citizenship who cares?
 
Actually, based on my own experience, permanent residents of Argentina are "obligated" to vote in all but the presidential elections.

The only "obvious" thing that immediately comes to mind regarding things a permanent resident can't do (as opposed to an Argentine citizen) is obtain an Argentine passport (which would enable travel to a few countries my US passport wouldn't?).

I was never told I could not do anything else because I wasn't an Argentine citizen, but I would be interested in knowing about any of the things I can't. Having a DNI as a temporary and then a permanent resident was always sufficient.

PS: I think there may be some additonal requirements (number of years) for a PR to receive benefits from PAMI, but I have not paid anything into the system and I would not try to obtain those benefits, even I was elegible. .
Yes, The ability to obtain a passport would go hand in hand with citizenship.

To tell you the truth, I had absolutely no idea that permanent residents were able (OBLIGATED) to vote in all elections except for presidential elections. That is amazing to me. To your knowledge, is this the only country that allows a non citizen to vote in "lower" elections?
 
I don't see how that's a negative thing. If they don't recognize your other citizenship who cares?
Well, I don't disagree with you. In fact I do agree.

But I figured I would point this out to the poster, because in a rare situation such as having committed a crime or being accused of doing so, there is no avoiding the local justice system via your country diplomat trying to do something for you. (If that were even possible.) Put another way, you are viewed and treated as a local, because you are. You native country citizenship is ignored and your diplomats are powerless to help you like they could if you did not have ARG. citizenship status.
 

BAHibs

Registered
Citizenship does open up the possibility to move with ease to other MERCOSUR countries due to the free movement agreement, so if retiring in a Brazilian beach is a goal citizenship might be the best way to go vs residency.
 

steveinbsas

Registered
Yes, The ability to obtain a passport would go hand in hand with citizenship.
On August 10, 2020, in the now closed to further replies thread "Citizenship timeline" Bajo_cero2 posted that there is a "second class" citizenship that does not include political rights:

"If you are planing to stay long and go for citizenship, forget about visas. ou can apply for citizenship as an inhabitant that is a second class (automatic) citizenship without political rights."

I don't know whether or not that includes or excludes a passport. Bajo_cero2 may have actually posted that it does not. Hopefully, he will clarify.

On a related note, Bajo_cero has also posted that a permanent resident who has been charged with a crime may be (or is likely to be) held in jail until the trial while citizens are usually allowed to remian free before the trial, and while a native's citizenship cannot be revolked, citizenship granted to a foreigner can (after a conviction for a serious offense).

To tell you the truth, I had absolutely no idea that permanent residents were able (OBLIGATED) to vote in all elections except for presidential elections. That is amazing to me.
Some time after moving to my present location eleven years ago I found a note in my mailbox (issued by the municipalidad) informing me of this obligation.

To your knowledge, is this the only country that allows a non citizen to vote in "lower" elections?
I don't know and I've never had a reason to search for the answer.

The word "allows" implies that is a matter of choice, but anyone who should vote and doesn't is subject to a fine.
 
On August 10, 2020, in the now closed to further replies thread "Citizenship timeline" Bajo_cero2 posted that there is a "second class" citizenship that does not include political rights:

"If you are planing to stay long and go for citizenship, forget about visas. ou can apply for citizenship as an inhabitant that is a second class (automatic) citizenship without political rights."

I don't know whether or not that includes or excludes a passport. Bajo_cero2 may have actually posted that it does not. Hopefully, he will clarify.

On a related note, Bajo_cero has also posted that a permanent resident who has been charged with a crime may be (or is likely to be) held in jail until the trial while citizens are usually allowed to remian free before the trial, and while a native's citizenship cannot be revolked, citizenship granted to a foreigner can (after a conviction for a serious offense).



Some time after moving to my present location eleven years ago I found a note in my mailbox (issued by the municipalidad) informing me of this obligation.



I don't know and I've never had a reason to search for the answer.

The word "allows" implies that is a matter of choice, but anyone who should vote and doesn't is subject to a fine.
Thanks for all your detailed replies. They are valuable.
 

steveinbsas

Registered
On August 10, 2020, in the now closed to further replies thread "Citizenship timeline" Bajo_cero2 posted:

"If you are planing to stay long and go for citizenship, forget about visas. ou can apply for citizenship as an inhabitant that is a second class (automatic) citizenship without political rights."

I don't know whether or not that includes or excludes a passport. Bajo_cero2 may have actually posted that it does not. Hopefully, he will clarify..
On August 13, 2020 (in the "Citizenship timeline" thread), Bajo_cero2 posted:

"An internation passport is granted only with full citizenship."

You can read the full thread here:


PS: I'm not certain if "second class citizinship" is granted by the courts or it's acutally permanent residency which is granted by migraciones.
 
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