Need Advise On How To Handle My Maid

Cameras aren't admissible sadly :( And actually, looking back, it wasn't a year of salary we had to pay out. It was closer to 2 years now that I look at the records. Gah...

Have one now that I need to terminate and I'm dreading it.

That is the thing. Once bitten twice shy. So now you start preparing the setting of how you will let her go in advanced and calculating the cost. It is really stressful. And it is not just the money, it is that you know you will likely get screwed and it is not good. Financially you know you are due to pay X amount by law and to that you will need to add a 'let's leave it alone' compensation. Which you know it is not fair, but it is what it is. So you need to find a way to minimize that pay.
I remember when I first arrived here I thought Argentines were terrible to their maids and other help. All these dirty tricks to get them to leave the job, and changing them every three months. We are from Mexico, and my mom has had the same lady helping her for over 20 years. Now, after our tense negotiations with the cleaning lady I understand why the tricks and changing them every three months. Also, my family back in Mexico City tell me things there regarding domestic help are the same as here. There even worse, since everyone is so worried about safety.
Mmoon is right, no one really needs a maid. This is such a candid topic among expats, locals and everyone that having help all the time is changing little by little. Reliable electricity, cheaper and more reliable appliances and more child care options would really help to decrease the need for cleaning ladies.
 
It's not about needing a maid. If one wants one, one should be able to hire one and not have to worry about being sued for no reason or have them steal from you or whatever. It's not just maids though, like I said, the company I started here is shutting down operations in Argentina b/c of the cost of employees here and the risks of having employees here. One you can live with (high costs but ease of employment laws or low costs but highly restrictive employment laws) but both.. nope.

In my specific case, having household help is simply not optional. We have a large house, we prepare food for 10+ employees every day and I am also expecting so will need childcare help.

In the past 2 years that I have been living outside of Cap, I have gone through....7 maids? 3 have stolen from me (money/jewelry/clothes), am getting sued by a 4th, 2 just stopped showing up without warning and the 7th I need to fire as she is stealing food from me. Nice track record. And I pay decent wages, they are in blanco, paid holidays, vacation, sick time with note, etc. Doesn't matter.

It actually makes me really sad b/c I believed in Argentina and having a business here and employees here as it is my home and my children will be 1/2 Argentine. I have lived here for almost 6 years and honestly, I have very little good to say about the employees here and would never recommend it as a place to do business and certainly don't trust anyone that works for us.

This should encapsulate the mentality here. We pay a 25% monthly bonus to our workers if they show up every day. 25% of their monthly salary. Not for performance, just for showing up. We have on average 10 people working here. We paid ONE bonus back in Nov '12. None in December. None at all in 2013.
 
Yes I agree, one should be able to hire a maid if you feel you need one and not have any significant problems. Unfortunately, the reality is very different for 90% of the people I know here, including natives. Obviously you have a different situation if you are preparing food for your employees, but most of the people I know in BA have pretty small apartments, are at least relatively tidy, don't work insane hours, and never had a maid in their previous country. Also, the idea of having someone help raise my child who has no problem being dishonest, flakey and stealing from me leaves a lot to be desired. I would be more tempted to try hiring some of the expats who advertise on this site and perhaps have come from a culture that doesn't stand for being ripped off by employees on a regular basis. Don't get me wrong, I love a lot of things about Argentina and its people, but my life got a lot easier once I didn't have to deal with having a regular maid...it was more mental trouble than it was worth for shiny floors.
 
always sign a legal contract... that will enable termination for no reason... never hourly based... and most importantly people that work for you are not your friends... it will never work... be firm, be fare and they will respect you...

In your case what I would do, is limit her hours to one hour a week... make her do some dirty work... she will quit on her own...

don't let yourself be pushed around by someone you provide for... respect your hard earned money...
 
always sign a legal contract... that will enable termination for no reason... never hourly based... and most importantly people that work for you are not your friends... it will never work... be firm, be fare and they will respect you...

In your case what I would do, is limit her hours to one hour a week... make her do some dirty work... she will quit on her own...

don't let yourself be pushed around by someone you provide for... respect your hard earned money...

You do not know the law here - sadly termination with or without cause is standard in most legal employment contracts and is 99% ignored by the courts who always support the fired party even if there are videos and witnesses to theft, abuse etc. You also cannot change working hours which will be deemed a change of conditions enabling the employee to leave and claim constructive dismissal..and again win in a court of law. The dirty work is an option...but again from my own experience I've seen employees simply refuse to do their job or any task assigned saying No I won't do it....what will you do about it? It's a truly frightening employee market out there as there are many employees who feel over entitled and empowered by law to abuse. I'm pretty amazed we've had such good luck with our staff of late - touching wood and kissing my rabbit foot as I speak. I feel your pain Citygirl - to be taken advantage by so many in your own home would drive most people to distraction.
 
always sign a legal contract... that will enable termination for no reason...

As Fifs2 said - a contract is worthless. Literally worthless. The accountant I had laughed at me when I insisted my corp employees sign one as it has no legal value. But at least I feel that they couldn't claim they didn't understand what was expected of them, the hours, etc. I also have my maids sign a timesheet at the end of the month verifying they agree those are the hours they worked, their rate, etc. This in addition to the receipt they get when I pay their retirement costs, etc. Do you know what value those docs have in a lawsuit? Zero.

It is what it is here and what it is is not an employer-friendly market.
 
It's not about needing a maid. If one wants one, one should be able to hire one and not have to worry about being sued for no reason or have them steal from you or whatever. It's not just maids though, like I said, the company I started here is shutting down operations in Argentina b/c of the cost of employees here and the risks of having employees here. One you can live with (high costs but ease of employment laws or low costs but highly restrictive employment laws) but both.. nope.

In my specific case, having household help is simply not optional. We have a large house, we prepare food for 10+ employees every day and I am also expecting so will need childcare help.

In the past 2 years that I have been living outside of Cap, I have gone through....7 maids? 3 have stolen from me (money/jewelry/clothes), am getting sued by a 4th, 2 just stopped showing up without warning and the 7th I need to fire as she is stealing food from me. Nice track record. And I pay decent wages, they are in blanco, paid holidays, vacation, sick time with note, etc. Doesn't matter.

It actually makes me really sad b/c I believed in Argentina and having a business here and employees here as it is my home and my children will be 1/2 Argentine. I have lived here for almost 6 years and honestly, I have very little good to say about the employees here and would never recommend it as a place to do business and certainly don't trust anyone that works for us.

This should encapsulate the mentality here. We pay a 25% monthly bonus to our workers if they show up every day. 25% of their monthly salary. Not for performance, just for showing up. We have on average 10 people working here. We paid ONE bonus back in Nov '12. None in December. None at all in 2013.

Oh Citygirl. In your case more than maids they are just house/business staff. And yes, in this country you have tough employment laws and very high costs. Also, the culture does not help, also the social and educational divisions are sharp so you have a good chunk of under prepared labor who are not willing to work hard, or feel entitled to more, just because. The current government got elected on that sentiment... and just feeds it.
I have heard similar complaints from managers at Ford, Reuters, Clinica Trinidad, you name it. It is exhausting and enraging and a good chunk of what keeps the country stagnated. But hey, being Mexican a lot of this happens there too. Mexico has very pro-business labor laws, though. Still, the culture is very similar.


I can really understand your frustration and anger. This is the exact sentiment that drives a lot of us out of our countries towards the US, Europe or anywhere else. On one side it is really bad brain drain and bad for our countries, but for us to stay at some point would become a sacrifice. Away we get paid fairly for our work, we have safety and the guarantee no one will steal, kidnap, or harm us in any way. We also know that we don't kneed to have connections to start, keep and run a business. Yes, anywhere in the world connections help, but here it is a MUST to have and the system is corrupt at every level. In other countries it is just the very wealthy top layer... though that seems to be changing too.

Regarding child care, you will need support. There are less options here than in the US, so a nanny or sitter are needed. I have found a good source of nannies and sitters. She screens them and helps placing them. They do not do house work or chores other than feed the kids, put away toys, etc. But so far no one has sued me, hurt any of the boys or stolen from me. I will send you a pm with her information, even if you are not in Capital, she might have someone or know someone who does the same thing in your town.

Hope your legal worries get resolved soon and enjoy your pregnancy. That is the most important part.
 
gosh, this thread is a good reminder how good we have it with our housekeeper. she's been with us since 2005 and has truly become family to us here. we treat her well, and in return she's always excelled at her job and always been there for us. in all these years she's never missed a day, and even when sick she shows up, tho we end up sending her home to rest. she and her family (which we are close to as well) are one of the (now few) reasons we still enjoy living here.
 
2guysinPM - enjoy her! I had a fantastic CL in Capital for years and I still recommend her to people on this board. 100% trustworthy, did a great job cleaning, did occasionally miss a day but would always let me know and reschedule. I miss her all the time!
 
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