Need To Buy Car For 1 Year In Bariloche - Jan 2015 Arrival

[ajoknoblauch]

So you are saying if they buy the car and put it in their name (they are Argentine), that we can get a power of attorney signed to allow us to cross the border? Has anyone done this and did they have any trouble? We would like to cross into Chile for sure if we can figure out how to do it...next stop Tierra del Fuego!

I have done this, and I know others who have done it. If it's your name, I can guarantee you won't be able to take it across the border unless you sign a power of attorney to an Argentine citizen or permanent resident. I realize how absurd that sounds (and how absurd it is), but that's the way it works in Argentina. It's part of the reason I own a car in Chile instead.

 

[ElQueso]

You know, I hate to put out yet another point to confuse things, but feel I must.

I'm not sure that the "power of attorney" is good enough for the permission to drive a car here, much less cross the border. I could be 100% wrong about that, but my understanding is that while I have a green card to drive the car in my own name, my friend would need a [blue?] card (can't remember what color they said it was), which does involve getting a statement signed at an escribano but there was a little more process to get the card, was what I understood. Forgive me if I'm wrong about this specific item - although I have a car in my name, I've never gone through the effort of getting permission for someone else to drive it, although I need to do this soon anyway.

The thing about crossing the border is, they are real weird about it in South America in general. IF a "power of attorney" from an escribano is good enough to drive the car in Argentina with it not in your name, I would still get in touch with a lawyer to verify exactly what you would need to cross the border with the car.

As I understand the limit on border crossings and ownership, linked with residency status (and I have had all in my 8 years of living here, having owned a car for more than 6 years and before I actually had residency):

1. If you own a car registered in Argentina, as a tourist, you should have no problems taking your car into another country with your passport, and as long as your car has Mercosur insurance. When I first bought my car, this is the status under which I crossed the border many times, into Paraguay and back, with never a problem. Until I hit #2:

2. If you own a car as an applicant for residency (you have your precaria) and have not yet been approved for residency (i.e., you do not yet have your DNI) you cannot take the car across the border, period.

3. If you have your DNI and you have Mercorsur insurance, you can take your car across the border.

When you take the car across the border in any situation, the car should leave the foreign country in which it is located within 90 days, like a person's visa (except it's not a visa, just a time limit).

As I said, I'm not sure about crossing the border if you are given permission to drive someone else's car and they're not with you, but given #2 (under which I got caught out on once, before I realized what the law was) I'd be surprised if it was that easy for a non-owner, particularly a foreigner, to be able to cross the border so easily.

Personally, I think you'd probably be fine as a foreigner, owning the car, with the proper insurance, and unless something has changed in the last 3 years (certainly possible!) you should be able to go back and forth with just your passport.

But please confirm this with a lawyer.

 

[ajoknoblauch]

You know, I hate to put out yet another point to confuse things, but feel I must.

I'm not sure that the "power of attorney" is good enough for the permission to drive a car here, much less cross the border. I could be 100% wrong about that, but my understanding is that while I have a green card to drive the car in my own name, my friend would need a [blue?] card (can't remember what color they said it was), which does involve getting a statement signed at an escribano but there was a little more process to get the card, was what I understood. Forgive me if I'm wrong about this specific item - although I have a car in my name, I've never gone through the effort of getting permission for someone else to drive it, although I need to do this soon anyway.

The thing about crossing the border is, they are real weird about it in South America in general. IF a "power of attorney" from an escribano is good enough to drive the car in Argentina with it not in your name, I would still get in touch with a lawyer to verify exactly what you would need to cross the border with the car.

As I understand the limit on border crossings and ownership, linked with residency status (and I have had all in my 8 years of living here, having owned a car for more than 6 years and before I actually had residency):

1. If you own a car registered in Argentina, as a tourist, you should have no problems taking your car into another country with your passport, and as long as your car has Mercosur insurance. When I first bought my car, this is the status under which I crossed the border many times, into Paraguay and back, with never a problem. Until I hit #2:

2. If you own a car as an applicant for residency (you have your precaria) and have not yet been approved for residency (i.e., you do not yet have your DNI) you cannot take the car across the border, period.

3. If you have your DNI and you have Mercorsur insurance, you can take your car across the border.

When you take the car across the border in any situation, the car should leave the foreign country in which it is located within 90 days, like a person's visa (except it's not a visa, just a time limit).

As I said, I'm not sure about crossing the border if you are given permission to drive someone else's car and they're not with you, but given #2 (under which I got caught out on once, before I realized what the law was) I'd be surprised if it was that easy for a non-owner, particularly a foreigner, to be able to cross the border so easily.

Personally, I think you'd probably be fine as a foreigner, owning the car, with the proper insurance, and unless something has changed in the last 3 years (certainly possible!) you should be able to go back and forth with just your passport.

But please confirm this with a lawyer.

Of course, consult a lawyer if you feel the need but, on the basis of personal experience, you should expect to hear just what I've told you. You can take a rental car across the border but, if the vehicle's in your own name, you can forget it.

Things can change, and I'd be delighted to be proved wrong. In Argentina, though, a non-resident foreigner cannot take a vehículo nacional across the border (you read that right: you can buy it and, technically, it's your private property but you cannot necessarily do as you wish with it). Weirdly, though, you can authorize an Argentine to do so.

 

[cbonanni]

Ajo is correct. I have had to do this several times prior to obtaining my DNI. Now it is not an issue. I did consult my attorney , and he agreed. It is as Ajo says.

 

[ElQueso]

Seems our direct experience (my car wasn't a rental, it was in my name, and I had previously passed various border crossings many times with no problems, under my passport only) and from direct statements from border officials the moment I had my precaria, but before I had my DNI (as I stood at the border wondering why, all the sudden they wouldn't let me do something I'd done at least 10 times before, and once, about a month before at the same border crossing) and when I called my lawyer from Clorinda where I'd been held up, who told me the same thing in the moment...

So you guys could be exactly right. My direct experience is different, with many witnesses (I had 4 other people with me that trip), which is why I wrote about it. Wasn't trying to be a fly in the ointment.

 

[ajoknoblauch]

Seems our direct experience (my car wasn't a rental, it was in my name, and I had previously passed various border crossings many times with no problems, under my passport only) and from direct statements from border officials the moment I had my precaria, but before I had my DNI (as I stood at the border wondering why, all the sudden they wouldn't let me do something I'd done at least 10 times before, and once, about a month before at the same border crossing) and when I called my lawyer from Clorinda where I'd been held up, who told me the same thing in the moment...

So you guys could be exactly right. My direct experience is different, with many witnesses (I had 4 other people with me that trip), which is why I wrote about it. Wasn't trying to be a fly in the ointment.

As with everything in Argentina, your mileage may vary. Paraguay is one of the most porous borders where, more often than not, anything goes. Maybe your precaria made the difference but, as a non-resident foreigner, I would never count on being able to cross the border with an Argentine vehicle even if I had paperwork proving my ownership.

 

[cbonanni]

El Queso , you very well could have crossed at various border crossing with no issue. What changed is technology. At one time in the not too distant past ,many border crossing did not have the computers available and have current information. There were some secrets as to which ones , and those who knew used them. The main ones to Brasil and Chile had them. Most others did not. So they simply did not have the ability to check. Therefore you got through.

 

[ElQueso]

You may well be right, and I'm not really arguing the point, but it apparently didn't have anything to do with computerization when I crossed. When I got caught out at Clorinda with my precaria, they specifically told me that I couldn't take it across with a precaria. When I argued that I had passed not a month or two previously with just my passport, they said "then maybe you should have just showed us your passport this time, because you could cross with your passport if we didn't know you had a precaria". In that sense, the computerization might have made sense as far as being able to pass if I hadn't shown them my precaria (which was tied to my passport in their databases) but not the other way around.

Again, not arguing, just clarifying the situation I encountered and what specific officers of the border crossing (and my lawyer) told me at the time. Having said that, obviously one often never knows what one is going to encounter here.

One of the reasons that made sense to me was something similar with my sister-in-law, with whom we had crossed a number of times before she had her DNI, but as soon as she had her precaria we had to have a permission for her to actually leave Argentina (whereas we only had to have permission to leave Paraguay previously). I know automobiles and people aren't the same thing, but it was sort of the same situation I found in both cases.

So ignore what I said - the safest route would be what you guys are suggesting to the OP.