Neighbors: Brazil To Help Uruguay Avoid Argentina

[ajoknoblauch]

Yes, we cant blame them for that, every government would want to protect local tourism, after all they re argentines.

THere are even argentines here in Chile, but not many.

 

[Matiasba]

Argentina 'exports' lots of tourism. Mexico, Chile, Uruguay, Brazil, Miami, etc.
What the government is doing is trying to make that people choose Argentina, we have a very varied landscape repertoire. They are trying to capture those people, making it hard to travel outside the country, taxes, dollar restrictions, etc, plus, the matter that the peso worths nothing outside. That all helps to have a strong internal tourism.
Nevertheless, as I said before, people still travel. Lots of people own a house in Uruguay (not only Punta de Este, but the costa dorada, or even in Fray Bentos, Colonia, Carmelo, or Rocha). Uruguay depends on Argentina in tourism, Argentina can be protectionist but that wont be enough to change peoples choice of travelling to Uruguay. They have a great number of argentines every year no matter how economy is doing. These measures affect them, surely, but we cant blame the government, they re doing whatever government would do, protect the local tourism.

 

[ajoknoblauch]

Argentina 'exports' lots of tourism. Mexico, Chile, Uruguay, Brazil, Miami, etc.
What the government is doing is trying to make that people choose Argentina, we have a very varied landscape repertoire. They are trying to capture those people, making it hard to travel outside the country, taxes, dollar restrictions, etc, plus, the matter that the peso worths nothing outside. That all helps to have a strong internal tourism.
Nevertheless, as I said before, people still travel. Lots of people own a house in Uruguay (not only Punta de Este, but the costa dorada, or even in Fray Bentos, Colonia, Carmelo, or Rocha). Uruguay depends on Argentina in tourism, Argentina can be protectionist but that wont be enough to change peoples choice of travelling to Uruguay. They have a great number of argentines every year no matter how economy is doing. These measures affect them, surely, but we cant blame the government, they re doing whatever government would do, protect the local tourism.

Restricting people's right to travel is always wrong. It's wrong when the US government prevents its citizens from traveling to Cuba by a silly blockade, and it's wrong when the Argentine government prevents its citizens from traveling abroad (by whatever means it chooses).

 

[GS_Dirtboy]

Sorry MatiasBA - I don't buy it.

CFK, et al isn't trying to "protect" domestic tourism. That's a farse. They are trying to prevent Argentines from going to Uruguay to deposit Dollars, and from going to Miami to use their Arg credit cards to buy first-rate products with Pesos. The capital flight is because Argentines don't trust this government - and for very good reason. Capital flight continues regardless of the latest idiotic government idea. Then the government decides the answer is one more idiotic idea which simply erodes more confidence. The cycle continues.

Imagine you have a dog. The dog isn't doing what you want it to do so you decide the answer is to beat it so it respects you. Now, it does less of what you want it to do. So you think the answer is to beat it harder?

We have a workplace joke in the US. It goes like this: All vacations are hereby cancelled until moral improves. It was funny in the US. It is not funny here. It is pathetic.

 

[Matiasba]

Restricting people's right to travel is always wrong. It's wrong when the US government prevents its citizens from traveling to Cuba by a silly blockade, and it's wrong when the Argentine government prevents its citizens from traveling abroad (by whatever means it chooses).

restrict? its a tax, they don prohibit nothing!! In fact, as I said, lots of people still travel!!!!

Its ike the dollar restriction, every people complain, I know is a pain in the ass, but nobody has a problem with the dollar blue, with the arbolitos, excahanging money. So the restriction pretty much not work in its purpose.

 

[Matiasba]

Sorry MatiasBA - I don't buy it.

CFK, et al isn't trying to "protect" domestic tourism. That's a farse. They are trying to prevent Argentines from going to Uruguay to deposit Dollars, and from going to Miami to use their Arg credit cards to buy first-rate products with Pesos. The capital flight is because Argentines don't trust this government - and for very good reason. Capital flight continues regardless of the latest idiotic government idea. Then the government decides the answer is one more idiotic idea which simply erodes more confidence. The cycle continues.

Imagine you have a dog. The dog isn't doing what you want it to do so you decide the answer is to beat it so it respects you. Now, it does less of what you want it to do. So you think the answer is to beat it harder?

We have a workplace joke in the US. It goes like this: All vacations are hereby cancelled until moral improves. It was funny in the US. It is not funny here. It is pathetic.

The problem of confidence is not a problem of this government exclusively. People who travel to Miami or take dollars abroad are not "common people", are the rich, the people who did not trust this government, or the past, or the one before that. They dont trust the country. But they get beneffits from it. The restriction is something with a huge history in Argentina. Lots of governments took similar measures, not only this one. It has to do with inflation and how economy works in this country. Every certain amount of time people (powerful people, the people that rule this country, big economic groups, people that should invest in national industry) take their money away. No matter the government, if it was good for them, if it was hard and put taxes, if they were militars or peronistas, or even radicales, they just take the money away. They change their (thousands of million) pesos to dollars and take it abroad. And this problem got worst when they decided to sold their assets to private foreigner people, like brazilians or americans.
So they never ever decided to invest in this country. Thats why every time we cant find dollars, and must devaluate.
In Spanish we call it cortoplacismo, short term vision, we just cant build a country if the people who is supposed to invest take the money outside and sell everything.

 

[Matiasba]

Anyway, theres still a lot of ways where you cant escape and should trust the government, people keep paying taxes, buying stuff, consuming and living under the elected government, so you dont know but in a way, youre colaborating with people from La Campora.

 

[ajoknoblauch]

restrict? its a tax, they don prohibit nothing!! In fact, as I said, lots of people still travel!!!!

Its ike the dollar restriction, every people complain, I know is a pain in the ass, but nobody has a problem with the dollar blue, with the arbolitos, excahanging money. So the restriction pretty much not work in its purpose.

It's an indirect and underhanded way of restricting travel, and it does work even though some Argentines manage to evade it. It also undermines the government's own legitimacy (such as that is).

 

[ajoknoblauch]

A friend of mine here in Varas has just told me how Argentines are getting cash: They go to the supermarket and wait until someone is making a large purchase, and they offer to pay for it with their Argentine credit card. The purchaser then gives them the cash in Chilean pesos.

 

[GS_Dirtboy]

People who travel to Miami or take dollars abroad are not "common people", are the rich, the people who did not trust this government, or the past, or the one before that.

As a point of reference the rest of the world calls these people the "middle class" - the economic engine that drives the economy. This economic class is disappearing rapidly here. Then you will be left with the super-rich and everyone else. Lets call everyone else "poor" for the sake of argument. Any politician with 2 working brain cells understands that the number of votes from the poor vastly outnumber the votes from the rich.

The electoral platform then is very clear - ''I'm a supporter of the 'working class.' The reason you can't afford meat and milk is the fault of the rich. Elect me and I'll make sure your government subsidies are raised so you can feed your family and we'll create programs to redistribute the wealth of the rich to you all - the people who really deserve it!"

Meanwhile, the President owns multiple luxury hotels that all charge in Dollars among other amazingly fortuitous land holdings and gets manicures and pedicures daily. We are now rapidly moving toward a colonialist society where there was a local "Governor" appointed by the Motherland to oversea the management (aka pillage of human and natural resources) of the colony. Except the poor don't understand this.

We can talk all day long about the inequality of the 1% that controls over 50% of the country's wealth and I would agree with you. We have a similar problem in the US. However, the way to a strong, economically viable country isn't handouts to the poor in exchange for votes. The way is for the government to invest in programs that raise the literacy and skill rate and create opportunities and incentives for people to invest in their own future by way of more education, investments in housing, etc.