Nestor Kirchner has just passed

[SaraSara]

Some expats live in a kind of private bubble ??? And what about you???

What´s what you don´t like about la ley de medios?? Tell me because I can´t understand you, it looks like you repeat what Clarin and La Nacion say. You don´t have a reason to oppose it.

They are trying to implement la ley de ganancias which will distribute the 10% of the companies profits among their employees? Do you also oppose to that right?

And please, aside from the corruption and favoritism of the K, what are the measures he/she took you dislike?

What´s your ideal of government? Hitler, Videla, Mussolini, Bush??

That last line was totally unnecessary - confrontational and needlessly aggressive. It almost made me ignore your post, but since the rest is tolerably civil, here's the answer: my idea of an enlightened president are people like Roosevelt, Truman, and Obama.

I oppose the ley de medios because it would put far too much power in the government's hands, which could then control most media and distort information at will. Since you mentioned Hitler, keep in mind that he enjoyed total control of the German media.

The ley de ganancias sounds all right, provided all ineffectual and inefficient employees could be fired. However, I wonder how many companies would choose to invest in Argentina when other countries don't have such a law. It would probably mean fewer jobs in the long run.

We are competing with far more attractive countries like Chile and Brazil - even Peru is doing better than Argentina right now.

 

[sergio]

Sure Sergio...because the privatizations were done in such an efficient manner...I remember being released from those lazy bums of Entel...and feel free to choose between Telefónica and...well, that's it...I lived south of Rivadavia so no other option for me. I love their very efficient helpdesk 112, so much more efficient than Entel.

Also: I love the private, safe, cheap buses that replaced long-distance train services, that were privatized because they were inefficient.

Ferrocarriles Argentinos was a complete disaster. The company was probably the largest public employer, if not THE largest then one of the largest in the nation, and it worked horribly. There were thousands upon thousands of gnochis, people on the payroll who only showed up to get their pay. The trains were dirty, completely unreliable and inefficient. I prefer trains to buses but I have NEVER experienced anything as bad as Ferrocarriles Argentinos. I remember a trip to Cordoba in a sleeper that had one working light, about 20 watts. The window was shattered, the bed had dirty, used sheets. The foam pillow crumbled in my hand. It was a rolling slum. This is how Ferrocarriles ended. I agree that the state should have subsidized the private railways for passenger service while monitoring that service but the fact is that what Ferrocarriles Argentinos offered at the end of its life was useless. Nowadays the state subsidizes the railways (there is still a LOT of corruption). At least the trains run by the private company Ferrocentral (they go to Cordoba and Tucuman) are a lot better than what Ferrocarriles offered in its last years.

 

[sergio]

The phones, yes people always mention the phones - yes thankyou Carlos for fixing the phones - a purely accidental outcome in the massive transfer of public assets to the private sphere at fire sale prices (and the attendant greasing of palms, co-option of many unions turning their leaders into shareholders and enforcers for the companies themselves etc) to raise the foreign currency in order to squeeze a bit more life out of the convertibility plan. Yes but apart from those little things and apart from the death of the railways in this process and apart from the airlines, the pensions (which shaved over a percentage point off GDP and acclerated the descent) and apart from the threats, beatings and killings of journalists, apart from the other deaths, mysterious accidents, 'suicides', the exploding arms dumps, the gun running, the ferrari (mine, mine, mine!), changing the constitution to be re-elected, the automatic majority he installed, the chief of customs who couldn't speak Spanish, the amnesty for the perpetrators of the human rights abuses of the dictatorship, the decrees (how many was it 400? 500?), and apart from the decimation of Argentine industry, the resultant unemployment (and crime, significantly higher than it is now) the inevitable default and massive economic repercussions as a result of his policies, apart from all that (and excuse my terrible memory, I know I've left things out) I guess, yes, he wasn't so bad really.

As I pointed out in another post, the state is subsidizing private railways. When is the last time you rode a long distance passenger train in Argentina? NEVER? Go over to Retiro and take a train to Cordoba, Tucuman, Rosario, Junin etc or take a train from Constitucion to Mar del Plata, Pinamar, Tandil or Bahia Blanca. Go south and ride the Bahia Blanca to Bariloche train. The railways are not dead. Even in the days of Ferrocarriles Argentinos there were plenty of intercity buses.

 

[gouchobob]

This is just my opinion on what the legacy of the K's will be. I think this will be viewed as another period where Argentina missed a golden opportunity. Commodity prices were high and demand for locally manufactured goods particularly from Brazil was strong. The government could have adopted pragmatic business friendly policies that encouraged investment and hiring, more like Lula in Brazil has done. Once the commodity and manufacturing boom are over I think there will be real problems. At that point people will realize that not much of a lasting nature was accomplished under the regime. I hope it doesn't happen but I wouldn't be surprised if the country quickly slipped back to 2001 level of problems.

 

[Moxon]

The "Ley de Medios" has not fully passed - it has only half sanction.

Oh, dear god, it's worse than i thought...

Speechless...

Where to start?..

I urge you to read the paper more closely. That is, if you are fluent in Spanish.

I would add the same may be asked of you. Do you know what media sanción means?

Do you know what happened on Oct 10 2009?

Do you know the law is already being implemented?

Now, I'm sure you will forgive me for using the term unfathomable levels of boring old ignorance, but no other term could really do justice, you see?

Some expats live in a kind of private bubble - the country see and talk about has no resemblance to the Argentina the locals live in. But by all means, keep on dreaming...!

Do you mean the Argentina with the totalitarian regime, the Argentina where journalists are once again in exile broadcasting from Colonia, the Argentina where Nelson Castro (could you have chosen someone a little less ubiquitous?) is being muzzled etc etc. I'm sorry, but that Argentina I can only reach with the assistance of hallucinogenic mushrooms (how did you get there, incidentally?)

Now, Moxon, as a personal favor, please go back to ignoring my posts.

Say no more, you've sold me with that post.

 

[sergio]

The interesting thing is that the anti-K commentary here has been downright tame compared to what many porteño friends and conocidos are posting on facebook, twitter, etc.

I think it's safe to say that anti-K sentiment isn't just an expat thing.

An Argentine friend sent me an email today saying that "the devil will be honored to receive Nestor Kirchner". Harsh words but they were not mine. They were the words of an Argentine and I can tell you that there are plenty of Argentines who share his feelings.

 

[dr__dawggy]

An Argentine friend sent me an email today saying that "the devil will be honored to receive Nestor Kirchner". Harsh words but they were not mine. They were the words of an Argentine and I can tell you that there are plenty of Argentines who share his feelings.

Your friend would get along well with my Agentine friend who sent me an email saying that since he has been deprived of seeing Nestor hanged he is holding out hope that at some point he will have the satisfaction of watching "his own people will burn his coffin in the public square, which is something Peronists like to do...." (he goes on to cite an example from history).

 

[Gringoboy]

FFS!
What's all this bitching for?
Today, Nestor Kirchner died.
Ex President of his country, but more importantly a loving father and husband.
I remember when my father and mother died. I grieved for years and still do.
I didn't go round hanging out their dirty washing on the very DAY that they died.
NK had his faults as all of us have.
I think, at this time it is wholly inappropriate to be condemning either him or his wife.
No doubt all that will come like a snowstorm in the days and weeks to come, but for today why can't we feel some compassion for his family who have lost a loved one.

 

[perry]

Your friend would get along well with my Agentine friend who sent me an email saying that since he has been deprived of seeing Nestor hanged he is holding out hope that at some point he will have the satisfaction of watching "his own people will burn his coffin in the public square, which is something Peronists like to do...." (he goes on to cite an example from history).

History will judge Nestor Kirchner kindly and judging by the readers comments in CLARIN 95% have been favourable to him . This is a most clearcut guide of real sentiment out there.

http://www.clarin.com/politica/gobi...mpensacion-cardiaca-Calafate_0_361164064.html

 

[tkm]

Today is a special day indeed.
I have no comment about Kirchner's death. I saw people crying on TV ( the news is on ALL channels, nonstop since morning) but I know Argentine who are celebrating too.

I'm just curious ( and excited ) about what happens next to the country.
Rumour has it that the other K aka Nestor's puppet might not even finish her service until next election.

I'm waiting on Argentina to change.