Now Police Can Ask You For The Dni You Don't Have

[mikic007]

In many countries in the world you have to have some document with you and shoe it to police, if demanded. I lived in oppressive regime, and no one found that bad later. How can police even do their job, if they have less rights than local seller?

There should be other limitations for police, and if they don't work, this dni thing doesn't really matter. If demand to show dni directly leads to torture, I guess we have a bit bigger problem...

 

[sleslie23]

In many countries in the world you have to have some document with you and shoe it to police, if demanded. I lived in oppressive regime, and no one found that bad later. How can police even do their job, if they have less rights than local seller?

There should be other limitations for police, and if they don't work, this dni thing doesn't really matter. If demand to show dni directly leads to torture, I guess we have a bit bigger problem...

The only time I was ever stopped and asked for my ID was in Madrid. In France, I know it is possible, but it has never happened to me. However, I have friends who are French of African descent who were stopped frequently and asked for ID. Their description of the events demonstrates nothing less than harassment.

I'm sure the same will be true, now, in Argentina. I doubt your average BAXPat will notice any difference. However, Paraguayan, Bolivian, and Peruvians most likely will.

 

[sleslie23]

In theory but in my XP in the USA you must carry ID when walking down the street, if asked for any reason. Otherwise will take you to the station for ID verification ...! I

My personal experience, being a middle-aged, white male who rarely drives an automobile, is that I have never had any interaction with the police.

But your general point is accurate.

 

[Rich One]

In many countries in the world you have to have some document with you and shoe it to police, if demanded. I lived in oppressive regime, and no one found that bad later. How can police even do their job, if they have less rights than local seller?

There should be other limitations for police, and if they don't work, this dni thing doesn't really matter. If demand to show dni directly leads to torture, I guess we have a bit bigger problem...

Great humour LOL ... This happened to me in LA when crossing a street jaywalking , a police stopped me and asked for my ID to write a $$ ticket, I claimed the ID was left at home (to avoid the fine), the policeman then said well must take you to the station to verify ID....??
I said one sec officer maybe the ID is in another pocket... So he proceeded to write the ticket.

Never felt my civil liberties had been curtailed....!

Sorry responded to the wrong post

 

[citygirl]

However, Paraguayan, Bolivian, and Peruvians most likely will.

That quite probably is true BUT why not wait until it's happened to condemn the police? And again - if it turns out to be the case - I'll be the first person in line to protest against the police. But it hasn't happened yet.

I am sensitive to the fact that people are worried about abuse of power. Hopefully that won't occur. But again - there has to be a middle ground. Police should have the same rights as the store clerk IMO. I don't think they're going to randomly be stopping people just for kicks and giggles (at least IME with the police here, they're not exactly looking to do extra work. If they stop someone doing something suspicious - well, asking for ID seems a logical step for them to take.

Let's wait and see what happens.

 

[sleslie23]

That quite probably is true BUT why not wait until it's happened to condemn the police? And again - if it turns out to be the case - I'll be the first person in line to protest against the police. But it hasn't happened yet.

I am sensitive to the fact that people are worried about abuse of power. Hopefully that won't occur. But again - there has to be a middle ground. Police should have the same rights as the store clerk IMO. I don't think they're going to randomly be stopping people just for kicks and giggles (at least IME with the police here, they're not exactly looking to do extra work. If they stop someone doing something suspicious - well, asking for ID seems a logical step for them to take.

Let's wait and see what happens.

I'm sure if you were a member of the demographic most likely to be a target of police harassment, you might have a different opinion. In the US, for example, many people who aren't the target demographic for "stop and frisk" don't see any problem with "stop and frisk."

Also, what does a store clerk have to do with the police asking for ID without probable cause? I don't think you understand the ramifications. It's not only that police can ask you for ID if you are suspected of committing a crime (I assume they can do that now). It's that they can randomly ask you for ID just walking down the street.

 

[camberiu]

As

I'm sure if you were a member of the demographic most likely to be a target of police harassment, you might have a different opinion. In the US, for example, many people who aren't the target demographic for "stop and frisk" don't see any problem with "stop and frisk."

As someone who used to be part of that targeted demographic in the US (I am no longer that young anymore) I have first hand experience with that.
I have a very white friend in Virginia who used to be very pro-police and did not think racial profiling in the US was a real thing, except some "liberal fantasy story". 20 years ago, I was spending my college summer break with him at his home in suburban VA, and he would drive me around. That summer, we got pulled over by the police 6 times (no tickets were issued) . He had NEVER been pulled over before.
After that, he changed his opinion about racial profiling.

 

[citygirl]

I'm sure if you were a member of the demographic most likely to be a target of police harassment, you might have a different opinion. In the US, for example, many people who aren't the target demographic for "stop and frisk" don't see any problem with "stop and frisk."

Also, what does a store clerk have to do with the police asking for ID without probable cause? I don't think you understand the ramifications. It's not only that police can ask you for ID if you are suspected of committing a crime (I assume they can do that now). It's that they can randomly ask you for ID just walking down the street.

I actually do have a problem for stop and frisk - which is a big step from asking for ID. My point is that you (and I) have no idea how this will play out. You're decrying the policy and what it means without it even having been implemented. I'm willing to give them a benefit of the doubt. Here's my read - the police may see something that makes them want to talk to someone (presumably suspicious) and in their capacity at preventing crime, they can ask that person some basic information. They don't get to frisk them or arrest them for a crime of not having it. They get to walk up to you or I and ask us our names and to show them our ID. That's it.

Me personally - I don't see it as a huge infringement on my civil liberties assuming that's where it stops. My point in re the clerk is that really - what authority does X person in the store have to verify my identity and that it matches the name on my card? But we have granted them that in hopes that they can prevent a crime (i.e., someone is using a stolen card). Is it that much of a stretch to say a police officer should have the same ability to ask for ID?

Maybe I am a bit blasé. I have been stopped multiple times here at checkpoints and had to show my ID. I've been asked to show ID when traveling all over. Lord knows, I've been asked to show my ID in triplicate when doing any type of tramite here. I get asked to show my ID when I buy something. I get asked to see my ID when entering into pretty much any building in NYC when I am there. The whole world seems to want to see some kind of photo ID to verify.

In this world of very real issues of racial profiling, etc - I'm just not putting a police officer having the right to ask for an ID up there on the egregious behavior scale. Maybe it will devolve into profiling and targeting and the rest and as I said, I will be the first in line to protest if it happens. But until it does, I'm not there.

 

[sleslie23]

I actually do have a problem for stop and frisk - which is a big step from asking for ID. My point is that you (and I) have no idea how this will play out. You're decrying the policy and what it means without it even having been implemented. I'm willing to give them a benefit of the doubt. Here's my read - the police may see something that makes them want to talk to someone (presumably suspicious) and in their capacity at preventing crime, they can ask that person some basic information. They don't get to frisk them or arrest them for a crime of not having it. They get to walk up to you or I and ask us our names and to show them our ID. That's it.

Me personally - I don't see it as a huge infringement on my civil liberties assuming that's where it stops. My point in re the clerk is that really - what authority does X person in the store have to verify my identity and that it matches the name on my card? But we have granted them that in hopes that they can prevent a crime (i.e., someone is using a stolen card). Is it that much of a stretch to say a police officer should have the same ability to ask for ID?

Maybe I am a bit blasé. I have been stopped multiple times here at checkpoints and had to show my ID. I've been asked to show ID when traveling all over. Lord knows, I've been asked to show my ID in triplicate when doing any type of tramite here. I get asked to show my ID when I buy something. I get asked to see my ID when entering into pretty much any building in NYC when I am there. The whole world seems to want to see some kind of photo ID to verify.

In this world of very real issues of racial profiling, etc - I'm just not putting a police officer having the right to ask for an ID up there on the egregious behavior scale. Maybe it will devolve into profiling and targeting and the rest and as I said, I will be the first in line to protest if it happens. But until it does, I'm not there.

Citygirl, you keep bringing up tangents that make it seem like you aren't understand the issue. I had to show and wear my ID badge anytime I went to the office in Buenos Aires. That's not the issue. The issues is walking down the street or being in a PUBLIC space and being asked for your ID for no reason other than the police officer wants to see your ID.

I understand that you may have been asked for your ID "in other countries." As I mentioned previously, it's common practice in many countries. My original point was that for *ARGENTINA* this is fundamental change to society. Again, you and I will never notice the difference, but it's highly likely others will.

 

[citygirl]

I completely understand the issue. I just don't see it as that much of a fundamental change as you do. But like I said, I have been asked to show IDs multiple times at checkpoints HERE in Argentina. Actually this is the only place that's ever happened to me. And not because I was committing a crime or acting suspiciously. Because the police or gendameria decided that day to wave me over and asked to see my ID, insurance, etc. On a public road, minding my business and had to stop and show them all the info. PITA? Yeah, a little bit. I bitched about it but at the end of the day, it really was NBD.

I understand your concerns. I just don't share them at this point.