Obtaining citizenship (with rentista visa, but interrupted)

[Bajo_cero2]

Some great answers on the forum here, but after extensive searching couldn't find an answer to my question; I'm hoping some of you can help me.

Background: I'm a foreigner, eligible for the rentista visa, which will be my first step: getting temporary residency and moving to Argentina next year. I own my own business, freelance and earn (exclusively outside of Argentina, so don't need to work for an employer here), but adore it here and would like to start the process towards steps two and three: citizenship and permanent residency. That said: I have friends, family, and obligations outside of the country, so I'll most likely be in and out (and out for many months at a time), which has me worried about an "interruption" of my planned time here.

As per the government, one of the requirements for citizenship is "tener 2 años de residencia ininterrumpida y documentada en el país". I would love some clarification (ideally, with a link to a resource somewhere or by those who have asked the same thing to immigration lawyers) about what that "uninterrupted" would be defined as?

Some low-quality articles and posts I've read seem to indicate it could mean anything from completely uninterrupted (as in, you can't leave Argentina during the two years preceding your application for citizenship), others indicate that "holidays are fine", others yet "more than 50% of the time must be spent in Argentina" and others allude that you can come and go as you please, as much or as little as you want, just make sure your visa remains valid (you have the same civil rights as Argentines, which includes the right to travel).

Just want to make sure I'm not going to waste time or do things in an ineffective way here. Also: if I've actually missed this answered in a forum post, apologies (*but please link to that, so that future readers can get to it through these keywords)

You do not need to wait until the second year to apply.
You can apply right away and save time.
Rentista means you are a landlord. It is a medieval antique.
It is better to stay irregular, while you apply for citizenship you are tax free.

 

[dsp27]

You do not need to wait until the second year to apply.
You can apply right away and save time.
Rentista means you are a landlord. It is a medieval antique.
It is better to stay irregular, while you apply for citizenship you are tax free.

He/She said they will be traveling in and out the country on regular basis. Good luck staying irregular and not getting denied entry...

 

[steveinbsas]

You do not need to wait until the second year to apply.
You can apply right away and save time.
Rentista means you are a landlord. It is a medieval antique.
It is better to stay irregular, while you apply for citizenship you are tax free.

This is from Feb 24, 2011:

Taxation may also be a "big thing" for some temporary residents as well if migraciones is now requiring those with the visa rentista to be "in country" 180 days of the year for the renewal of their visas.

When you apply for rentista you have 3 options:
a) That you rent real state
b) Savings
c) A foreing salary.

They only acept option a) because they can tax you.

If you go for citizenship you should evidence you have an honest way of living. So, if you have real state abroad you don´tmust declare it and you don´t pay those taxes. You can declare some savings, that´s enough.

Once you are a citizen, if you like, you go to AFIP, you fill an affidavit and you pay taxes according to this. verage is about 1000 dollars a year.

If you lie in your affidavit and you pay less taxes and AFIP doesn´t realizes, good for you. There are about 300 billion dollars abroad of Argentinian´s saving without paying taxes nowadays.

I think Bajo_cero2 wrote that leaving the country during the two year period does not interrupt the "residency" but I can see how this might be open to interpretation by the judge (if you don't have a DNI and are gone for extended periods). Those who have been making the day trips to Colonia for a couple years are probably OK, but I agree that it's pointless to continue to go there.

The trips to Colonia and the trips in general doesn´t interrups the 2 years of continious residence.

 

[dsp27]

This is from Feb 24, 2011:

When you apply for rentista you have 3 options:
a) That you rent real state
b) Savings
c) A foreing salary.

They only acept option a) because they can tax you.

If you go for citizenship you should evidence you have an honest way of living. So, if you have real state abroad you don´tmust declare it and you don´t pay those taxes. You can declare some savings, that´s enough.

Once you are a citizen, if you like, you go to AFIP, you fill an affidavit and you pay taxes according to this. verage is about 1000 dollars a year.

If you lie in your affidavit and you pay less taxes and AFIP doesn´t realizes, good for you. There are about 300 billion dollars abroad of Argentinian´s saving without paying taxes nowadays.


The trips to Colonia and the trips in general doesn´t interrups the 2 years of continious residence.

-- A foreign salary is NOT a passive income. There is the Global Nomad visa for that.
-- Savings are okay only if they are invested in a fund that is irrevocable for the duration of the visa and pays out a fixed sum.

-- AFIP and the Court have nothing to do with each other and they do not cross reference information. You do not have to go to the AFIP after you become a citizen to sign anything. You become liable as a tax resident even as a resident just by living here 6+ months a year.

--Finally, despite what some forum members here say, I would advise against going down the path of gaming the system and try to get the carta de ciudadania without any legal residence here. Could it work? Sure, there are a few instances from a few years back but it's a protracted and expensive exercise that would put you in a legal purgatory for many years (certainly way more than 2, probably close to 5) with no guarantee of success. And of course your legal fees will have to be paid upfront, regardless of the outcome. IMHO it's best to go down the established procedure (which can be free or close to free) => residencia first then carta de ciudadania.

 

[fuzzyslippers]

On taxes, if you don't have Argentine source income I wouldn't worry about the impuestos a la ganancia (income tax).

Just from personal experience, I would worry an equal amount about undeclared income as I would about undeclared wealth. It's clear that after a certain time spent in Argentina (or elsewhere) you become a tax resident and then you would need to follow the tax rules of the jurisdiction, whether that is income, wealth, or any other tax that applies to you.

I'm not against paying taxes (and whether I am or not wouldn't make it less legal to evade them in whatever form). Some will benefit greatly from being a citizen and living here full time, benefits that are not always easy to put a dollar amount on. Of the offshore, non-Argentine assets held in your name, it translates to around -$22,000 you'll need to fork over to Argentina for every $1m in assets, while you are a tax resident here (that would be the time spent leading up to becoming a citizen; other times in future you want to be here more than six months out of the year). This could very well be a price some would be willing to pay, and could be a lesser evil than what others are already paying in a different jurisdiction, and is cheaper than some of the "citizenship by investment" programs that start around $150,000 (often for an inferior passport).

The concerns that form part of the financial planning of course include:

• that there will be more once-off "contributions" in future (a high percentage tax levied; a low threshold for when it kicks in)
• that the annual wealth tax will be levied on worldwide assets of citizens regardless of their tax residence/domicile in Argentina
• the high liability should one decide to live in Argentina for an extended period of time

It is better to stay irregular, while you apply for citizenship you are tax free.

Unfortunately, that won't be possible, as I will need to be in and out of Argentina and any overstaying or repeated in-and-out trips will certainly raise red flags. But also: it also will almost certainly complicate matters not just here but elsewhere, as many other visas/residency/investments/applications ask if you've ever overstayed, ever been denied entry in a country, and so on. Something I would have considered in my younger years, but not at this stage of the race.

If you lie in your affidavit and you pay less taxes and AFIP doesn´t realizes, good for you.

There are of course other, grey but legal ways of avoidance and asset-ownership transfer, too. There will probably be some who transfer offshore assets (or otherwise obfuscate their true wealth, legally or otherwise); others who decide that it's not worth any of the hassle and just come for short holidays; others may choose to renounce their citizenship; and others yet who feel that they're after all getting value for money

On a positive note, this tax will eventually be dropped...it's controversial and frankly outdated in todays globalized world.

These things are so hard to predict. I've certainly been wrong about my predictions more than once

 

[steveinbsas]

Savings are okay only if they are invested in a fund that is irrevocable for the duration of the visa and pays out a fixed sum.

Do you happen to know how much the monthly "fixed sum" in pesos is presently required to quality for the visa rentista?

 

[steveinbsas]

There are of course other, grey but legal ways of avoidance and asset-ownership transfer, too. There will probably be some who transfer offshore assets (or otherwise obfuscate their true wealth, legally or otherwise); others who decide that it's not worth any of the hassle and just come for short holidays; others may choose to renounce their citizenship; and others yet who feel that they're after all getting value for money...

You wrote the above paragraph inresponse to the comment below, inadvertendly (due to a glitch in the reply function) misquoting me:

If you lie in your affidavit and you pay less taxes and AFIP doesn´t realizes, good for you.

But I am not the one who made this comment. It was a quote from Bajo_cero2's post of Feb 24, 2011.

I would never encourage or congratulate anyone (even in jest) for lying in order to commit tax evasion.

 

[Alby]

Just from personal experience, I would worry an equal amount about undeclared income as I would about undeclared wealth. It's clear that after a certain time spent in Argentina (or elsewhere) you become a tax resident and then you would need to follow the tax rules of the jurisdiction, whether that is income, wealth, or any other tax that applies to you.

These things are so hard to predict. I've certainly been wrong about my predictions more than once

I agree with both these statements. And the general point in the post that once one reaches a certain age, the approach to the financial and taxation implications of falling in love with Argentina needs to be well thought through. Everyone is different, and due diligence isn't for everybody, I understand. But for others, it's just common sense.

I can't see why income on an asset would not be taxed under the ganancias tax. Hell, the bienes personales is calculated on the full value of the asset regardless of the taxpayer's equity in it.

Bienes personales was extended until 2027 at the existing rates a fortnight ago. Although Juntos would no doubt begin to reduce the rate and phase it out were they to win in 2023 (and maybe even reopen the domicile loophole that was closed in 2020), there is no guarantee that they will have the numbers or last very long in power.

 

[steveinbsas]

I assume in time this site will be large enough that there will be a separation/branching of the "Expat life" forum to have one dedicated to, say, "Money" (which could include all things money like taxes, remittances, exchanging money, bank accounts, dolar Coldplay...) and "Residency" (visas, tourists, border runs, citizenship, marriage, and more).

The search feature of this site already enables anyone who desires to create a "customized" list of posts that are "dedicated" to all of the subjects in your post simply by entering the appropriate key words and phrases...without the home page being cluttered by dozens of individual topics.

If you enter "visa rentista" and search only in titles, this will be the result:

Search results for query: visa rentista

baexpats.org

Rememberiig one thread, I entered the word "rentas" in another search (of all posts) and found the thread I was looking for in less than one minute:

Rentista Visa

Based on what I've found regarding a Rentista Visa, (mostly from this forum, big thanks, terrific help on evolving rules), I need to come to Buenos Aires before beginning a Rentista application process. Last time I examined the requirements at Migracion, it referenced the applicant's attorney...

baexpats.org

It is FULL of useful information on the subject of the visa rentista and how to get one, including how to fund an "irrevocable trust" with CD's which could generate the required monthly income as they mature (as opposed to generating monthly interest income).

 

[fuzzyslippers]

You wrote the above paragraph inresponse to the comment below, inadvertendly (due to a glitch in the reply function) misquoting me:


But I am not the one who made this comment. It was a quote from Bajo_cero2's post of Feb 24, 2011.

I would never encourage or congratulate anyone (even in jest) for lying in order to commit tax evasion.

Ah, my bad, not sure what happened there, but yes, clearly misquoted!