Obtaining citizenship (with rentista visa, but interrupted)

[fuzzyslippers]

Some great answers on the forum here, but after extensive searching couldn't find an answer to my question; I'm hoping some of you can help me.

Background: I'm a foreigner, eligible for the rentista visa, which will be my first step: getting temporary residency and moving to Argentina next year. I own my own business, freelance and earn (exclusively outside of Argentina, so don't need to work for an employer here), but adore it here and would like to start the process towards steps two and three: citizenship and permanent residency. That said: I have friends, family, and obligations outside of the country, so I'll most likely be in and out (and out for many months at a time), which has me worried about an "interruption" of my planned time here.

As per the government, one of the requirements for citizenship is "tener 2 años de residencia ininterrumpida y documentada en el país". I would love some clarification (ideally, with a link to a resource somewhere or by those who have asked the same thing to immigration lawyers) about what that "uninterrupted" would be defined as?

Some low-quality articles and posts I've read seem to indicate it could mean anything from completely uninterrupted (as in, you can't leave Argentina during the two years preceding your application for citizenship), others indicate that "holidays are fine", others yet "more than 50% of the time must be spent in Argentina" and others allude that you can come and go as you please, as much or as little as you want, just make sure your visa remains valid (you have the same civil rights as Argentines, which includes the right to travel).

Just want to make sure I'm not going to waste time or do things in an ineffective way here. Also: if I've actually missed this answered in a forum post, apologies (*but please link to that, so that future readers can get to it through these keywords)

 

[steveinbsas]

Background: I'm a foreigner, eligible for the rentista visa, which will be my first step: getting temporary residency and moving to Argentina next year. I own my own business, freelance and earn (exclusively outside of Argentina, so don't need to work for an employer here), but adore it here and would like to start the process towards steps two and three: citizenship and permanent residency. That said: I have friends, family, and obligations outside of the country, so I'll most likely be in and out (and out for many months at a time), which has me worried about an "interruption" of my planned time here.

Owning your own business and operating it remotely from Argentina will NOT suffice to get you a rentista visa unless the income from the business is passive (dividends vs. a salary paid to yorself) and you can demonstrate to migracones satisfaction that you are already receving it and that it will contnue without interruption in the future. This may be very difficult. Others have posted that getting the visa rentista is not an easy task and it is not granted on the basis of "earned" (aka "active") income.

If you do get temporary residency, you will have to stay in Argentina for at least six months of the year.

As per the government, one of the requirements for citizenship is "tener 2 años de residencia ininterrumpida y documentada en el país". I would love some clarification (ideally, with a link to a resource somewhere or by those who have asked the same thing to immigration lawyers) about what that "uninterrupted" would be defined as?

Some low-quality articles and posts I've read seem to indicate it could mean anything from completely uninterrupted (as in, you can't leave Argentina during the two years preceding your application for citizenship), others indicate that "holidays are fine", others yet "more than 50% of the time must be spent in Argentina" and others allude that you can come and go as you please, as much or as little as you want, just make sure your visa remains valid (you have the same civil rights as Argentines, which includes the right to travel).

I suggest you search for posts by Bajo_cero2. He is an Argentine lawyer specializing in citzenship for foreigners, especially those without temporary residency or a DNI.

He has made it clear that you do not have to be in the country without interruption for two years to qualify for citizenship, but if you spend less than six months of the year in the country, you probably won't. Neither will you be able to renew your temporary residency.

Although it is not necessary to have a DNI or temporary residency to obtain citizenship, if you spend more than six months out of twelve consecutive months in the country, you could have some problems with migraciones. the obvious one is overstaying a tourist permit that has been extended for 90 days.

One possible way to stay in the country for more than six months without creating a problem with tmigraciones would be to let your initial 90 day permit expire and then, within the 30 day grace period, ask for a 90 day extension (at an additional cost of 50% of the fee for the extension).

That might satisfy the physical presence requirement for citizenship, butI imaging that it would be up to the judge to make that determination. It would also be up to migraciones to determine how long you would have to remain outside the country before you are allowed to reenter and receive a new 90 day permit, something that appears to depend on the whim of the individual border agent at that moment. It appears that there is no 180 day rule rearding the total number of days you would ned to wait. Withut temporary residency, you need to avoid creating the impression that you are living in the country on a torist permit.

If you are able to get temporary residency and are comfortable with the tax liabilities that come wih it, you will be ablle to come and go as you please, as long as you spend six months of the year in Argentina, and you should not have to spend much longer than that during each of the first two years to qualify for citizenship.

If it's citizeship you really want, I think you can scratch permanent residency off the list, as you will be able to get citizenship at last a year (if not two years) sooner.

 

[steveinbsas]

Just want to make sure I'm not going to waste time or do things in an ineffective way here. Also: if I've actually missed this answered in a forum post, apologies (*but please link to that, so that future readers can get to it through these keywords)

I suggest you search for posts by Bajo_cero2. He is an Argentine lawyer specializing in citzenship for foreigners, especially those without temporary residency or a DNI.

Search results for query: citizenship stay

baexpats.org

 

[Alby]

I do not read Fuzzy's post as indicating s/he will seek the rentista residency on the basis of the freelance business and its earnings. I suspect s/he has other assets to substantiate the application and is (separately) mentioning how s/he earns a living more generally.

I had the same reaction though as you to the point about permanent residency: if citizenship is the ultimate goal, permanent residency becomes redundant.

 

[fuzzyslippers]

High-quality responses and links, thanks so much, Steve (and thanks for the other posts of yours I've found here the past few weeks)!

As Alby said, my (potential) eligibility for the rentista visa is a mix of things not really based on freelance business: I have a reasonable portfolio of assets and investments (with passive income); I own a separate business that has its own investments and assets that provide an income to me (and the liquidation-value of those assets, all without active work); and lastly from time to time I freelance (for equity in startups or a paid freelance income or I make investments) that are all location-independent (and not from an Argentine source) .

It is very useful to know that the bar to getting a rentista visa is high and complicated, since for some countries to get a long-term visa you don't need to show an income but only need to show that you have enough assets (say, more than $500,000 in cash or invested in stocks) and that you therefore clearly won't be a burden on the state. Even if you theoretically had $10m (in, say, Tesla stock), it could still be hard to prove that you're actually earning anything (since those shares don't pay a dividend)

For now, I think my timeline will be as follow:

1. Get an immigration specialist/lawyer (like Bajo_cero2, what a legend!) for a once-off consultation and get some more insight about my situation/application that I should be aware of, especially surrounding assets/income for the rentista visa and taxes (a whole other discussion)
2. Apply for temporary residency (via the rentista visa) at the Argentine embassy when I'm back in my home country later this year
3. Come back to Argentina in 2023 (and satisfy the physical presence requirement -- stay more than 6 months of that year)
4. At the end of the year, renew temporary residency for another year (2024, and again remain for more than 6 months in that year)
5. At the end of the second year, apply for citizenship.

Things I won't consider then are permanent residency and anything creative like extending and overstaying a tourist visa (because I really will need to be in and out of Argentina and don't want any flags with migraciones, but I understand this could work for others). Also, should my rentista visa be denied, I suppose I could look into other temporary residency options too.

Happy to share what I gather from the process here (and I always encourage you to punch holes in my plan if there are better ways of doing it)

 

[dsp27]

High-quality responses and links, thanks so much, Steve (and thanks for the other posts of yours I've found here the past few weeks)!

As Alby said, my (potential) eligibility for the rentista visa is a mix of things not really based on freelance business: I have a reasonable portfolio of assets and investments (with passive income); I own a separate business that has its own investments and assets that provide an income to me (and the liquidation-value of those assets, all without active work); and lastly from time to time I freelance (for equity in startups or a paid freelance income or I make investments) that are all location-independent (and not from an Argentine source) .

It is very useful to know that the bar to getting a rentista visa is high and complicated, since for some countries to get a long-term visa you don't need to show an income but only need to show that you have enough assets (say, more than $500,000 in cash or invested in stocks) and that you therefore clearly won't be a burden on the state. Even if you theoretically had $10m (in, say, Tesla stock), it could still be hard to prove that you're actually earning anything (since those shares don't pay a dividend)

For now, I think my timeline will be as follow:

1. Get an immigration specialist/lawyer (like Bajo_cero2, what a legend!) for a once-off consultation and get some more insight about my situation/application that I should be aware of, especially surrounding assets/income for the rentista visa and taxes (a whole other discussion)
2. Apply for temporary residency (via the rentista visa) at the Argentine embassy when I'm back in my home country later this year
3. Come back to Argentina in 2023 (and satisfy the physical presence requirement -- stay more than 6 months of that year)
4. At the end of the year, renew temporary residency for another year (2024, and again remain for more than 6 months in that year)
5. At the end of the second year, apply for citizenship.

Things I won't consider then are permanent residency and anything creative like extending and overstaying a tourist visa (because I really will need to be in and out of Argentina and don't want any flags with migraciones, but I understand this could work for others). Also, should my rentista visa be denied, I suppose I could look into other temporary residency options too.

Happy to share what I gather from the process here (and I always encourage you to punch holes in my plan if there are better ways of doing it)

You seem like a relatively well to do busy person. Pay an immigrations lawyer (not citizenship lawyer), to help you with the paper pushing. It will cost you, I guess, a thousand USD or so but will save you a lot of time and wouldn't have to bother to follow up or do research etc.

 

[Alby]

Happy to share what I gather from the process here (and I always encourage you to punch holes in my plan if there are better ways of doing it)

Ultimately the only hole (as Steve alluded to) is that all these assets and the income they generate become taxable in Argentina once you reach a certain point along the path, unless the country(ies) where you normally pay tax on them has(ve) a very comprehensive double tax agreement with Argentina.

 

[fuzzyslippers]

Yeah, and it has the potential to be a huge hole your pocket if not done correctly, but it's a bit of a separate discussion (I've enjoyed your inputs on the topic in the other threads, thanks Alby).

I assume in time this site will be large enough that there will be a separation/branching of the "Expat life" forum to have one dedicated to, say, "Money" (which could include all things money like taxes, remittances, exchanging money, bank accounts, dolar Coldplay...) and "Residency" (visas, tourists, border runs, citizenship, marriage, and more).

 

[Alby]

That’s probably not going to happen.

Each individual can divide the two issues up in whichever way suits. Personally, I see them as the flipside of the same coin. But they are not equal. The “getting here” part is much easier. Almost everybody who wants to find a path can do so. If not straight away, then not too far in the future, after a little reorganization of one’s affairs. And, other than the more complex categories like rentista, we can do so ourselves without too much (or any) professional assistance.

The “organizing our affairs in advance of coming here and then after getting here” part is, for some people, more complex. And cannot be done without a lot of personal research of documents in both languages (and in both countries) and then professional assistance (in both countries). Everyone’s case is different, everyone's solution will be different, and the only way to find a path forward is to do a lot of work upfront before falling too much in love with Buenos Aires, or Argentina. The problem never goes away: even when you think you’ve found a solution that suits your circumstances, plans, and risk tolerance, inestabililidad juridica in this country means you never know when things could change and blow you out of the water.

I’d see the two issues as one, and begin with the more difficult part.

 

[dsp27]

On taxes, if you don't have Argentine source income I wouldn't worry about the impuestos a la ganancia (income tax). However, the bienes personales is a different story, as you would have to declare and pay on pretty much all your assets beyond 30k USD, abroad or in Argentina. This threshold is very low. You can potentially be liable for as much as 2% annually in tax payments on all your assets. Just make sure you discuss these implications with an accountant. On a positive note, this tax will eventually be dropped...it's controversial and frankly outdated in todays globalized world.