Overstayed Visa--How Many Times Is This Acceptable?

[steveinbsas]

Are you saying that the laws of Argentina do not require someone who lives here (for example more than 6 months per year) to declare their income and pay taxes if ithe income reaches a certain amount?

No, I did not say that and I don't think the question implied it, either.

Please read the sentence again:

"Why shouldn't it (VAT) be OK if that's basically all someone is required by law to pay?"

(This time I added the italics.)

And it does apply to someone who lives here for more than six months per year (including me).

 

[sevi]

The income of the business itself, yes. But not your personal income that you take away from that business.

If you registered the CDI for yourself (persona fisica vs. persona jurídica) then it is for declaring the money that you "take away".

 

[ElQueso]

If you registered the CDI for yourself (persona fisica vs. persona jurídica) then it is for declaring the money that you "take away".

Try paying income taxes. Income taxes include a lot of social payments for medical and retirement that are keyed to a DNI and retirement accounts are not going to be set up for someone who doesn't even have residency. In fact, to get a job in the white here, you must have a DNI for these very reasons. you can't even become a monotributista without a DNI.

So again, I don't know how one would pay personal income taxes without a DNI.

The money that you "take away" from the sale of a car or property is completely different and involves the reality of foreigners coming here and investing in "bricks and mortar" in Argentina. Remember, you can't work here legally unless you have a DNI. That includes, BTW, the foreign owner of a business, although owning a business can get you an "in" on residency, I believe. I'm certain about the latter because a friend and I were going to start up a locutorio some years ago and he didn't have residency and was hoping owning a business would get him a path to residency, but we found out that he could not legally work in our place legally unless he had a DNI.

 

[sevi]

No, I did not say that and I don't think the question implied it, either.

Please read the sentence again:

"Why shouldn't it (VAT) be OK if that's basically all someone is required by law to pay?"

(This time I added the italics.)

And it does apply to someone who lives here for more than six months per year (including me).

So then it is not ok when the a so-called "perma-tourist", staying here more than six months per calendar year, only pays the VAT (and not income tax)?

 

[ElQueso]

Another point on taxes - taxes involved in the selling of property is somewhat akin to VAT taxes (I'm not saying they are the same kind of tax), where you are allowed to perform certain transactions here as a visitor, compared to paying income taxes on money received in return for labor, as a resident.

A foreigner is allowed to own a business (which is a form of property), but the business itself needs to pay taxes on its income as a side-effect of being in existence. The foreigner is not paying those taxes, the legal entity is.

But labor laws (and income taxes0 fall under a completely different set of laws.

To tell the truth, I'm not sure about what kind of laws exist in relation to a foreign owner of a business taking money from the business in profits. I know that taxes on any money sent by a business out of the country are high (above and beyond the income tax the company pays, for example). but if the owner were to take money out of the business, after corporate taxes are paid, I'm pretty sure that by law, if the foreigner is not a resident, the foreigner does not owe income tax here on that money.

Doesn't mean that Argentina might try to screw with a foreigner who took money out and lived here as a perma-tourist. But it wouldn't be in the form of income taxes, it would most likely be in the form of confiscation or something. But that goes back to the person's status here as non-regularized immigrations-wise and what laws exist related to that.

 

[sevi]

Try paying income taxes. Income taxes include a lot of social payments for medical and retirement that are keyed to a DNI and retirement accounts are not going to be set up for someone who doesn't even have residency. In fact, to get a job in the white here, you must have a DNI for these very reasons. you can't even become a monotributista without a DNI.

So again, I don't know how one would pay personal income taxes without a DNI.

The money that you "take away" from the sale of a car or property is completely different and involves the reality of foreigners coming here and investing in "bricks and mortar" in Argentina. Remember, you can't work here legally unless you have a DNI. That includes, BTW, the foreign owner of a business, although owning a business can get you an "in" on residency, I believe. I'm certain about the latter because a friend and I were going to start up a locutorio some years ago and he didn't have residency and was hoping owning a business would get him a path to residency, but we found out that he could not legally work in our place legally unless he had a DNI.

Being able to declare income is not the same as being legally able to work. So you could get a tax ID and declare income even though you are not legally able to work (neither employed nor self employed).
And you are almost right with the DNI that is needed to work. It is actually the cuil that you need (or cuit if selfemployed). You can get both without DNI and a lot of patience (for example if you are on a precaria residence).

 

[ElQueso]

So then it is not ok when the a so-called "perma-tourist", staying here more than six months per calendar year, only pays the VAT (and not income tax)?

I think you're mixing up "what should people do in a perfect world" and what the law says.

If a foreigner who is not a resident cannot, by law, pay income taxes - he does not owe income taxes. If Argentine courts decide that person should not be in the country any more as a perma-tourist, they can then decide to say he or she is staying here illegally and deport that person if that person doesn't find a path to residency. If that person gets residency, the person would then be responsible for paying income taxes from that point on.

As far as other taxes like VAT and tax on sales of property - that was never in question. Legally, anyone who participates in such transactions, whether resident citizen or tourist, pays taxes on those items.

And actually - the businesses who charge VAT are the ones who are actually responsible for paying that tax. If the business doesn't collect VAT from its customers, AFIP isn't going to go after the customers, they are going to go after the businesses.

 

[sevi]

I think you're mixing up "what should people do in a perfect world" and what the law says.

If a foreigner who is not a resident cannot, by law, pay income taxes - he does not owe income taxes. If Argentine courts decide that person should not be in the country any more as a perma-tourist, they can then decide to say he or she is staying here illegally and deport that person if that person doesn't find a path to residency. If that person gets residency, the person would then be responsible for paying income taxes from that point on.

Exactly my point: By law the "foreigner" would owe income tax when living more than 6 months in the country even as a perma tourist (if their income is above the threshold). It is the same in the US: Someone could be an "illegal immigrant" earning an income, and even though immigration would not consider them a resident - the IRS still would.

 

[steveinbsas]

So then it is not ok when the a so-called "perma-tourist", staying here more than six months per calendar year, only pays the VAT (and not income tax)?

As you indicated in your previous question, it depends on the amount of income:

"Are you saying that the laws of Argentina do not require someone who lives here (for example more than 6 months per year) to declare their income and pay taxes if the income reaches a certain amount?"

OK with whom? Why are you asking me? I have no authority in this matter and my opinion doesn't make any difference whatsoever.

It's certainly OK with AFIP if someone does not pay income taxes if their level of income is not subject to the income tax.

I doubt that many pseudo tourists are making anywhere near the taxable monthly level of income and I personally don't care.

 

[steveinbsas]

Exactly my point: By law the "foreigner" would owe income tax when living more than 6 months in the country even as a perma tourist (if their income is above the threshold). It is the same in the US: Someone could be an "illegal immigrant" earning an income, and even though immigration would not consider them a resident - the IRS still would.

That is true, but it isn't exactly the same in the US

It looks like soon there will be many newly "legal" immigrants who will be working and not only not paying federal income taxes, but receiving the "earned income tax credit" of up to $24,000 per year.

The "earned income tax credit" is a euphemism for receiving money (a check) from the government as opposed to paying money to it.

At least the new legals will be paying some FICA taxes...if that's any consolation, but that revenue just goes to fund the ponzi schemes known as Social Security and Medicare.

What do they call the Argentine version of the earned income tax credit? If I understand correctly, there is a program that pays $4800 pesos per month to some individuals. Are those payments tied in any way to their "other" income?