Overstayed Visa--How Many Times Is This Acceptable?

When I wrote "It looks like soon there will be many newly "legal" immigrants who will be working and not only not paying federal income taxes, but receiving the "earned income tax credit" of up to $24,000 per year." I meant that it was possible for some to receive the earned income credit on an income of (up to) $24,000 per year, not that anyone would receive a check for $24,000.

The point was that not everyone in the US who works "legally" in the US pays federal income taxes and some who do work legally also receive money (direct payments) from the government.

You needn't apologize for presenting misleading "facts," such as the idea that low-wage earners do not pay taxes (even though they do), but you should at least acknowledge Mitt's leadership in this. The important thing is acknowledging that your capacity for empathy with those whose earnings do not reach the federal income tax threshold matches his.
 
So let me understand this...a "tourist visa" issued at the port of entry (the airport) is valid for 90 days as a tourist. Before the 90 days is up you go to Uruguay and reenter Argentina, to get another 90 Tourist Visa; and repeat again. Yet another group of people let their 90 Tourist Visa expire, continue to live in Argentina and when caught, pay a penalty/fine. Right so far - and then you wonder how many times you can get away with this?

I don't know about Argentina but in the States lying to a US Customs Official is a felony.

Why not just apply for the right visa.....instead of playing some foolish game with the immgration everytime?

Does the word integrity ring any bells for some of you!
 
Does the word integrity ring any bells for some of you!

No. Their response 'I am bringing USD to this USD starved country. Henceforth, I can lie at immigrations that i am a tourist but in reality I live/work here"

Or "The law enforcement in this country is not top notch, so why can't I lie around a bit as well. Anything goes here..as far as I am concerned"

or "The people of this country benefit from my presence here. I am God's gift to Argentina"
 
The problem is that it is too dificult to fit an immigration category.
 
No. Their response 'I am bringing USD to this USD starved country. Henceforth, I can lie at immigrations that i am a tourist but in reality I live/work here"

Or "The law enforcement in this country is not top notch, so why can't I lie around a bit as well. Anything goes here..as far as I am concerned"

or "The people of this country benefit from my presence here. I am God's gift to Argentina"

Option 2 is the most accurate, if:

- "law enforcement" is replaced with "the totality of society in this country, from leadership all the way down";
- "is not top notch" is replaced with "is corrupt", or alternatively "does not respect Argentine law except when convenient";
- "I am" is replaced with "anyone is"
- "lie around" is replaced with "bend the rules"

I am not justifying this approach (I personally got myself permanent residency, albeit at a rather leisurely pace, and do not recall lying to immigrations - my usual answer was that I am arranging papers) but it's wrong to suggest that the attitude is one of entitledness rather than one of simply noticing that you're in Rome and acting accordingly.
 
The important thing is acknowledging that your capacity for empathy with those whose earnings do not reach the federal income tax threshold matches his.

What makes you qualified to make a diagnosis about my "capacity for empathy with those whose earnings do not reach the federal income tax threshold" when you have no idea how much my earnings are or ever have been?
 
What makes you qualified to make a diagnosis about my "capacity for empathy with those whose earnings do not reach the federal income tax threshold" when you have no idea how much my earnings are or ever have been?

Since you fall among the truly needy, may your earned income credit windfall suffice to feed and clothe your family. And may Mitt not disown you!
 
So let me understand this...a "tourist visa" issued at the port of entry (the airport) is valid for 90 days as a tourist. Before the 90 days is up you go to Uruguay and reenter Argentina, to get another 90 Tourist Visa; and repeat again. Yet another group of people let their 90 Tourist Visa expire, continue to live in Argentina and when caught, pay a penalty/fine. Right so far - and then you wonder how many times you can get away with this?

I don't know about Argentina but in the States lying to a US Customs Official is a felony.

Why not just apply for the right visa.....instead of playing some foolish game with the immgration everytime?

Does the word integrity ring any bells for some of you!

"Why not just apply for the right visa?"

Many (if not most) of those who are either making "visa runs" or overstaying their tourist visas simply do not have that option because they don't qualify for one.

It would be easy for those of us who do, especially those who are relatively new to Argentina to say, "Boo-hoo, too bad for you." but there really are "extenuating" circumstances...at least in some cases, especially for some who have been playing this game for a number of years.

When I arrived in 2006 I realized almost immediately that I could qualify for a resident visa and got one in less than six months. I did get one 90 day extension at migraciones just before my 90 day tourist visa expired. I did so knowing that I was going to apply for residency but did not want to do so with an expired visa. I was thinking exactly the same way as several individuals who recently posted about making a visa run prior to applying for their residency. At the time this forum existed but there wasn't much information on the subject.

Anyway, at that time it was possible to enter Argentina, get a 90 day visa, renew it at migraciones, and then go to Uruguay to get a new visa when the extension expired. In 2006 it was also possible to go to migraciones just before the new visa expired and get a 90 day extension. This process could be repeated without ever overstaying and only making one trip to Uruguay (or Brazil or any other country) per year.

I believed that changed in 2010 with the new decreto and ever since then there has been the "ever present" fear of a "crackdown" on pseudo-tourists (those who were essentially living year round in Argentina with only a tourist visa, expired or not). If I understand the timeline correctly, in 2010 (perhaps a bit later) migraciones stopped issuing extensions of the "second" 90 day visa obtained in a calendar year.

I realize that many of those who are currently making the visa runs and/or overstaying arrived post 2010 but there are probably a few who have been playing this game since well before 2010. The possibility of a crackdown is something they have to live with every time they leave and reenter Argentina. Overstaying isn't a crime and saying they are going to regularize their resident status as soon as possible isn't a felony. It's pointless to compare the US system (or immigration laws) to those of Argentina.

The "system" that allows individuals to make visa runs and/or overstay and pay multiple times has been in place and "running" for many years.

I hope this helped to answer some of your questions.

PS: The word integrity certainly rings a bell for me. I was in Argentina for less than fifteen minutes after my first arrival in 2006 when the vet at the airport extorted a $100 payment to allow me to bring my dog into the country. That was when I realized that I had just entered a country with less 'integrity" than the one my dog and I were born in.

And I don't think that making repeated visa runs or overstaying a tourist visa constitutes a breach of anyone's integrity.
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Steve - I will disagree with you on the repeated tourist visa runs is - for me - an integrity issue. If my intent is to live in Argentina then I should apply for residency or citizenship status. You obviously decided to go the resident's route and did. For the sake of discussion if I wanted to be a resident I'd apply for residency; if I am a temporary visitor (90 day tourist) and I keep "overstaying" and or make "visa" runs I really am not being a tourist I am being a resident. Call it what you want but my personal integrity says its wrong.

Many of the illegals in the US (from all over the world) came on either tourist visas, student visas, or temporary work visas. When the clock ran out on their visas they just "overstayed". The consequence is if caught they can be jailed, then deported - in many cases there are repeat offenders; and they end up with 5, 10, 20 year bans or permanently barred from entering the US.
 
Steve - I will disagree with you on the repeated tourist visa runs is - for me - an integrity issue. If my intent is to live in Argentina then I should apply for residency or citizenship status. You obviously decided to go the resident's route and did. For the sake of discussion if I wanted to be a resident I'd apply for residency; if I am a temporary visitor (90 day tourist) and I keep "overstaying" and or make "visa" runs I really am not being a tourist I am being a resident. Call it what you want but my personal integrity says its wrong.

Many of the illegals in the US (from all over the world) came on either tourist visas, student visas, or temporary work visas. When the clock ran out on their visas they just "overstayed". The consequence is if caught they can be jailed, then deported - in many cases there are repeat offenders; and they end up with 5, 10, 20 year bans or permanently barred from entering the US.

@cwo4uscgret:

As a Canada/US Borders Officer you certainly bring a unique perspective from the other side of the coin.

Argentina´s Law is so different from the rest of the world in so many ways.
Extending familiar North American Laws here may be tempting, but may not be exactly applicable.


#17.
Overstaying tourist visa earns you:
  • IRREGULAR STATUS punishable by a $300 pesos fine.
  • Before exit you can pay in person at Migraciones Retiro, OR at Terminal Omnibus Retiro, OR 24/7 at Ezeiza or Aeroparque.
  • After exit without paying, it will show up on the system and you still can pay it online, but the system will have your history (you´re pushing your luck),. Avoid having history!!!
  • Even if Migraciones officially rejects your residency application , you´re still IRREGULAR, and you still can overstay for years, while appealing in courts. Up until when you get a court order to leave the country (1 in a million chance), ONLY then .. that it ultimately becomes ILLEGAL. (Unique to Argentina). #18.
  • For most of the rest of the world, it'd earn you an ILLEGAL STATUS right away. Day ONE after your 90 days, you´ll be subject to penal code, jail & black listed not to re-enter the country again for many years.
  • Soliciting a new 90 days at Retiro will put you at a much higher risk for "Ultima Prórroga" than doing the Colonia run.
The full story here: http://baexpats.org/...es/page__st__70
 
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