Overstayed Visa--How Many Times Is This Acceptable?

Sessions doesn't have to say it openly, as he's got the code words down pat.

We've got plenty of hate groups throughout the US, but nowhere are they so pervasive as in the Deep South. In California, they're the fringe; in Alabama and Mississippi, among others, they're mainstream. But if you prefer to deny the reality, well, you'll probably continue doing so.

Oh yeah I forgot to read up on those code words and reading people's minds from their writings. I'd love to know what those code words are.

As for denying reality, I'm only quoting from your own sources. Apparently its denying reality when your sources don't serve your purpose. Gotcha!
 
Oh yeah I forgot to read up on those code words and reading people's minds from their writings. I'd love to know what those code words are.

As for denying reality, I'm only quoting from your own sources. Apparently its denying reality when your sources don't serve your purpose. Gotcha!

Sessions is a piece of work, but a typical one who failed to earn confirmation for a federal judgeship:

"His confirmation was sunk after African-American colleagues accused him of racial insensitivity. Thomas Figures, a former assistant U.S. attorney, even alleged at the time that Sessions called him "boy" and said that he thought members of the Ku Klux Klan "were okay until I learned they smoked pot." Sessions denied the allegations of racial bigotry in testimony at the time.
Reform supporters have also hit Sessions for supporting an Arizona-style immigration law, which passed in Alabama in 2011. Immigrant-rights activists said the law legally sanctioned racial profiling and a federal judge struck down many of its provisions as unconstitutional."
 
When I wrote "It looks like soon there will be many newly "legal" immigrants who will be working and not only not paying federal income taxes, but receiving the "earned income tax credit" of up to $24,000 per year." I meant that it was possible for some to receive the earned income credit on an income of (up to) $24,000 per year, not that anyone would receive a check for $24,000.

The point was that not everyone in the US who works "legally" in the US pays federal income taxes and some who do work legally also receive money (direct payments) from the government.

Well.it looks like I was much closer to being right when I wrote: "It looks like soon there will be many newly "legal" immigrants who will be working and not only not paying federal income taxes, but receiving the "earned income tax credit" of up to $24,000 per year."

If the new immigrants are allowed to file returns for four prior years (2011-2014), a family with thee children could receive an EITC payment of over $24,000 the first year they file with the IRS. Add the "CTC (child tax credit) and the total new immigrant "signing bonus" could top $35.000. The actual amount they receive will depend on how many previous years returns are filed, how much was earned, and the number of children in the family.

As noted in a reply to my post, the "maximum EITC with one qualifying child is $3,250, with two children it is $5,372, and with three or more qualifying children it is $6,044."

Here's more information from a source I chose carefully to insure accuracy: http://megynkelly.us...the-first-year/
 
Since you were searching for zero credibility, you found the best possible source!

I chose a source that would elicit a fast and highly predictable response from those who would rather make snarky comments about the source than deal with the facts...which can also be found in the Associated Press article that was linked to in the Megan Kelly web page:

http://www.nola.com/...resident_o.html
 
Steve - I will disagree with you on the repeated tourist visa runs is - for me - an integrity issue. If my intent is to live in Argentina then I should apply for residency or citizenship status. You obviously decided to go the resident's route and did. For the sake of discussion if I wanted to be a resident I'd apply for residency; if I am a temporary visitor (90 day tourist) and I keep "overstaying" and or make "visa" runs I really am not being a tourist I am being a resident. Call it what you want but my personal integrity says its wrong.

Many of the illegals in the US (from all over the world) came on either tourist visas, student visas, or temporary work visas. When the clock ran out on their visas they just "overstayed". The consequence is if caught they can be jailed, then deported - in many cases there are repeat offenders; and they end up with 5, 10, 20 year bans or permanently barred from entering the US.

Integrity is defined as "the quality of being honest and having strong moral principles". If your personal integrity brings you to the point where you must follow every single law of a given country, that is how you've defined your personal integrity and that is fine. Others have defined personal integrity in different ways, and yet they are still people with integrity even though you may not agree with their personal definitions.

You use the term "illegals" when referring to the US and people staying there past their visas. It is simply not the same here - neither constitutionally nor legally, nor within policies that the immigrations department openly practices.

No one is breaking a law here, as the immigrations officials at the border allow you to come in, it being a policy of the people and government of the country of Argentina that such behavior be officially allowed until a change in your status goes from "irregular" to "illegal". People who do the visa runs are not violating a law but are rather working within the framework that this country allows. If the policy were to change, I'm betting no one will be allowed to enter who has stayed past their official visa limit.

Argentina is not even similar to the US as far as laws and customs (I mean specifically social customs, not border customs, although that is included in this case as well) for the most part, nor in how things are enforced, but in particular what is allowed.

Given that the Argentine government is very often non-specific and often contradictory, I don't blame anyone for trying to figure out what's allowed and what's not allowed. Particularly when it is nearly impossible to get a residency here for many people - yet the government openly allows them to stay anyway.

That's the part I don't get, how there is a lack of integrity in what "perma-tourists" do. See, I'm a guy who likes to think he has a lot of integrity. I never screw anyone on purpose and not even by accident if I can ever avoid it. If I do inadvertently screw someone I do everything I can to make it up to them. I often suffer, to my detriment, to ensure that I have covered my obligations with others.

And yet, for about 2 1/2 years, I was a perma-tourist when I first came here.

I couldn't get residency until I married my wife, who got residency through being a citizen of a Mercosur country. Until then, I went to Colonia every 90 days or so (when I wasn't traveling back to the States for business or something), with the full knowledge of immigrations officials, who let me into the country. I never had to lie to anyone, and even if I had lied, the immigrations official could easily have looked at my passport stamp pages (which is now only with 1/2 of one page that still has space for stamps) and known I was lying if I ever told him that I was not really living here, but just traveled a lot and liked Argentina (what other excuse could there be?) People who say they are trying to get their residency status regularized are not necessarily lying either - I'm sure that many (if not most) who do the visa runs would love to have a program under which to get residency and are constantly listening or looking for some means to do so. Again, the immigrations officials are not idiots - they know what is going on and via official policy are letting people in the country who live here with irregularized status.

If someone is fooling themselves that "they should be allowed" in because they are bringing hard currency into the country and aren't a drain on the country's economic resources (or whatever misguided reasoning), that's something a little different. They are still not "illegal", they are just arrogant. Many people do legal things while being quite arrogant about it. It doesn't make their actions any less legal than anyone else's, but it does mean they are arrogant people who aren't considering anything but themselves. I would agree that I don't find that attitude to have any integrity contained within it, but I really don't think that is anywhere near the majority of people who make visa runs..

You can't apply the same standards for just about anything here, that you would in the US. Of course, just because a lot of people here do everything they can to game the system here doesn't mean you should as well. But not paying taxes, hiding income, being dishonest in your dealings with others, etc, is quite a bit different than walking up to a border official, showing him or her your passport with a multitude of stamps in and out of the country over years, and accepting his offer to let you into his country without even trying to pay a bribe or coerce the official in any fashion.

And I can tell you from a personal standpoint: if you get hung up on other people not having integrity as you see it, you may not fit in too well in Argentina. It has taken me quite some time to deal with that specific issue, where there is a certain lack of integrity in many things here. "Visa runs" don't even show up on my personal radar when compared to the real lack of integrity that exists in abundance here.
 
Steve - for the last 11 years and until I retired in August of last year, (and still do) I live in Port Huron, MI and was a US Customs and Border Protection Officer on the border between the US and Canada.
...

Perhaps I am a bit harsh when I try to apply my integrity to the situation of repeated overstaying on tourist visas. Like you Steve - you made a decision to reside in Argentina years ago and you applied, to legally become a resident. My wife and I visited Buenos Aires twice now, once in 2012 and in December 2014 - January 2015. We will be back again either next year or in two years; as temporary visitors. We will also spend 3-4 months in Colombia next winter; and the paperwork for a temporary resident is being worked on. I don't know but those lessons my parents taught my 2 brothers and I growing up about doing the right thing, being honest, and taking responsibility for our actions - lessons taught to my children as well, those lessons help me to sleep at night and wake up without any guilt or fear that a knock on the door may be some law enforcement agency ready to drag me away kicking and screaming.

Your dedication to this value system is admirable -- I miss that 'always do the right thing' attitude, but it seems you haven't yet encountered the corruption and maladroit that can make trying to maintain that perspective here a soul-crushing experience. It will be interesting to hear your thoughts once you completed the process, but hopefully -- and it sounds like -- you are older and presumably relatively comfortable so that you may be able to hire someone to do it for you and you will remain joyously innocent regarding to the favors called in and/or bribes that facilitate your paperwork.
 
Your dedication to this value system is admirable -- I miss that 'always do the right thing' attitude, but it seems you haven't yet encountered the corruption and maladroit that can make trying to maintain that perspective here a soul-crushing experience. It will be interesting to hear your thoughts once you completed the process, but hopefully -- and it sounds like -- you are older and presumably relatively comfortable so that you may be able to hire someone to do it for you and you will remain joyously innocent regarding to the favors called in and/or bribes that facilitate your paperwork.

I just read the above quote...which was in response to this:

Perhaps I am a bit harsh when I try to apply my integrity to the situation of repeated overstaying on tourist visas. Like you Steve - you made a decision to reside in Argentina years ago and you applied, to legally become a resident. My wife and I visited Buenos Aires twice now, once in 2012 and in December 2014 - January 2015. We will be back again either next year or in two years; as temporary visitors. We will also spend 3-4 months in Colombia next winter; and the paperwork for a temporary resident is being worked on. I don't know but those lessons my parents taught my 2 brothers and I growing up about doing the right thing, being honest, and taking responsibility for our actions - lessons taught to my children as well, those lessons help me to sleep at night and wake up without any guilt or fear that a knock on the door may be some law enforcement agency ready to drag me away kicking and screaming.

First, in response to la guachita, I don't believe (In almost eight years) I have read any posts in this forum about "favors called in and/or bribes that facilitate your paperwork" at migraciones (at least for North Americans, Europeans, Australians, etc.). If you have first hand knowledge or experience with either please provide additional details.

There was one post by a member who tried to offer a bribe when applying for a visa at the office of migraciones:

I actually offered a bribe when I first got here to get by visa. Employee started screaming, in English "what do you think we are, a banana republic!!!!!!!!!???!!!" made things worse. The worse thing you can do is go around offering one, you would probably need an intermediary. And all said in done, getting passport replaced will be less expensive and quicker.

Getting a a passport with a lot of entry stamps replaced will not make any difference. All dates of entry and exit are in the system and can be seen by the immigration official when reentering Argentina.

Dr. Rubilar has made it clear that citizens of other countries (especially China and the Dominican Republic) face a different scenario, but I have yet to hear or read about North Americans and/or Europeans being asked for bribes by immigration officials upon entry or at the office of migraciones:

The Argentinian immigration policy changed 100%. Deportation for Mercosur citizens is forbiden by law.

After some months of feedback, I know they are enforzing it with Chinese and Dominicans.

However, let´s be reallistic, the risk regarding to be illegal for Europeans and Americans has nothing to do with a deportation order, it is regarding corrupted police or immigration agents. How long is it going to take until they realize they can deny your entry and change their mind after a bribe? And they wont be happy with 20 dollars.

At Ezeiza Airport, when Chinese arrive, they put them in another line until all the other turist are gone (until there are not any witnesses). Then they ask between 1000 up to 5000 dollars to stamp their passport or they deny their entry...

As khairyexpat posted yesterday regarding overstaying the visa (I changed the "fine" in the quote from $300 to $600 pesos):


LA MILANESA :) ;) :p :D >>> http://baexpats.org/...es/page__st__70

#17.
Overstaying tourist visa earns you:
  • IRREGULAR STATUS punishable by a $600 pesos fine.
  • Before exit you can pay in person at Migraciones Retiro, OR at Terminal Omnibus Retiro ubicado en el Puente Nº 5, (de 8 a 20 hs), OR 24/7 at Ezeiza or Aeroparque.
  • After exit without paying, it will show up on the system and you still can pay it online, but the system will have your history (you´re pushing your luck),. Avoid having history!!!
  • Even if Migraciones rejects your residency application officially, you´re still IRREGULAR, and you still can overstay for years, while appealing in courts. Up until when you get a court order to leave the country (1 in a million chance), ONLY then .. that it ultimately becomes ILLEGAL. (Unique to Argentina). #18.
  • For most of the rest of the world, it'd earn you an ILLEGAL STATUS right away. Day ONE after your 90 days, you´ll be subject to penal code, jail & black listed not to re-enter the country again for many years.
  • Soliciting a new 90 days at Retiro will put you at a much higher risk for "Ultima Prórroga" than doing the Colonia run.
The blue sub-Bullet should read as follows:
  • Even if Migraciones officially rejects your residency application, you´re still IRREGULAR. Only when they get a deportation order that it becomes ILLEGAL, but you can appeal, and Federal Court will give you Precaria to carry on your appeal. The appeal process can take many years. At the end of the appeal process, Federal Court will override the DNM Residency Categories Requirements.
Another way to skin a cat, ___ If you don´t fit in any category and you have the time and money.


I'm not soliciting anything or giving any advice (I have ZERO legal background).
Just offering my time to share my own personal experience.
 
1) there aren't rules, imo how many people can i kill before police find it out?????

Sometimes you don't seem to think like a lawyer at all.

A more apt analogy would be, "How many times can I be found guilty of murder before they sentence me to death?"
 
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