Pedestrian Dangers

[BikiniGirl]

Hi everyone,
Let me agree with you in the craziness in the streets in BA, but I also want to say that BA is not Argentina, just the capital Most Argentines say that happily the rest of the country is not so much like BA.
Another thing that an Argentine friend told me is that for them "gringo" is the immigrant from Italy, and that they call Americans "yanquis" (spelled this way in "Argentine Spanish"). thus "gringoland" is "yanquiland" indeed. :-D
Regards,

 

[robster]

The other thing that bothers me is the way any poster critical of life in Argentina is advised to pack his bags and go back to gringoland. One consequence of this is that posts on this forum may not then reflect the true range of experience and problems prevailing in Argentina. If a prospective visitor just reads one nauseatingly saccharrine account after another of life in BsAs, he may be in for a bit of a shock when he actually visits the place (as I certainly was). These self-appointed thought police aren't performing a useful function.

Firstly, I would never suggest to go back to gringoland unless they were truly unhappy. But I would suggest that its not up to an American or a Brit to waltz into the country and set out trying to change their ways. Argentines are far more civilized than their South American counterparts and will evolve to sort out these internal problems themselves. And recently, I have seen several sensationalised threads started by JG that I don't believe truly represent the balance of experiences and problems in BA that you refer to above and therefore see it as fair to challenge it. This is not a form of thought policing as I'm not trying to surpress anything. I am merely suggesting that the poster takes a look at what he/she can do to take more care of him/her self and stay out of trouble in the first place! I mean, are the cars mounting the pavements/sidewalks trying to run you down? Are they waiting until you start to cross the road, then without warning ie sound/sight from nowhere, appearing to get you? I've spent months there myself with no near misses by taking more time and care when crossing even when the walk light is on.
It just concerns me that people are spending too much time complaining about the cultural differences they are encountering when I don't believe its their place to do so.

 

[bigbadwolf]

But I would suggest that its not up to an American or a Brit to waltz into the country and set out trying to change their ways. Argentines are far more civilized than their South American counterparts and will evolve to sort out these internal problems themselves.

I presume you mean that if these ways and mores include truly homicidal driving, we should try -- as pedestrians -- to get into the spirit of things, as sacrificial lambs. Hey, and ours not to question why. We're just visitors. And Argentines who haven't managed to solve any of their major problems in the last 80 years, will suddenly, without any impetus or stimulus from outside, suddenly find the will and wherewithal to do so now.

It just concerns me that people are spending too much time complaining about the cultural differences they are encountering when I don't believe its their place to do so.

Ah, but that's the thought police part. Who are you to say who can and cannot criticise? Does the fact we're visitors mean we adopt a knee-jerk reverential attitude to much of the irrationality that doubtless exists in Argentine society?
But perhaps these are differences in temperament. My own is to pound the table with a mailed fist. Others may be more docile: the meek, after all, shall inherit the earth.

 

[PaulBee]

It doesn´t matter to me whether the poster is a native or not. His suggestion is that traffic safety laws here be (enacted if need be and) enforced. I hope for the sake of all people here that the laws will be better enforced, including for cyclists.

 

[JG]

ive been back in the usa about a month now. i havent had even one problem crossing the street. I dont think the issue is merely law enforcement, i think the portenos are very selfish people, they fly around the corner speeding, see you already in a crosswalk and will curse at you if you dont jump for your life. Reckless driving with a complete disregard, complete!, for pedestrians is murder. odd that some posters here seem to be condoning murder. i cross with caution, lets begin to see some driving with caution. just begin!
and speaking of cars, wow, its like time travel coming home again. the noise, the clouds of black smoke, the rude nasty people who are the norm in BA just vanish. And the streets! i never EVER thought the 2 cities Im visiting were clean before i moved to BA, now they seem like zurich (thats how garbage laden BA is!). When people ask me where i live and i say Argentina, theyve just been looking away in disinterest. Silently, i dont blame them and try to avoid mentioning it again. I almost forget what a smoke choked restaurant is like. yet (because i have a reason to be there) Hack, HACK, I guess im coming back!

 

[PaulBee]

The daily survey results in today`s Clarìn concern appropriate
punishment for repeat traffic offenders. Tell me if I am reading
too much into this but it appears to me that more than 96% of
those surveyed favoured stronger penalties. The majority favoured
yanking the drivers` license.

 

[bhapa]

After over a year in Buenos Aires I had never actually witnessed an accident involving a pedestrian. Until a few weeks ago that is. I was on the 60 bus around noon one weekday when we hit an elderly woman as she was crossing the road and we were turning onto Cabildo. It was a horrible, horrible event. The woman - who lived - was able to talk but had quite a battered leg. (The bus driver, once he realized what he had done, turned ashen white and went into shock, as far as I could tell.) I have to commend the police for being on the scene within seconds. Unfortunately the ambulance(s) didn't arrive for 15 minutes. And when they did, 3 showed up at the same time.

 

[Elpanada]

After over a year in Buenos Aires I had never actually witnessed an accident involving a pedestrian. Until a few weeks ago that is. I was on the 60 bus around noon one weekday when we hit an elderly woman as she was crossing the road and we were turning onto Cabildo. It was a horrible, horrible event. The woman - who lived - was able to talk but had quite a battered leg. (The bus driver, once he realized what he had done, turned ashen white and went into shock, as far as I could tell.) I have to commend the police for being on the scene within seconds. Unfortunately the ambulance(s) didn't arrive for 15 minutes. And when they did, 3 showed up at the same time.

It's sort of pathetic, during my time here which is less than a year I have wittnessed 4 traffic accidents first hand. 2 of those involving busses and two involving bikes.Amazing thing is that on three of those occasions vehicles bumped into eachother and got damaged but the drivers just decided to ignore that anything had happend and kept on driving, probably cause their cars were so shitty to begin with that a few bumps didn't make a difference. The fourth one was not a crash but rather a fall, saw this guy driving this bike at like 20-30 kms per hours tangle it up somehow and fall to the ground, he luckily stood right back up and looked uninjured. But yes I don't know really if punishing drivers any harder is the solution to this problem. A possible solution is making it harder for new drivers to obtain licenses and making them have to study more about traffic safety before getting licensed. Another good idea is to mandate offenders to take traffic safety courses and to perhaps retake tests for their driving licenses within say 60 days from an offense. As in any society things here are not going to be done the right way though.

 

[PaulBee]

Bad Behavior Bonus: Further further proving that as we said before many drivers here can't drive worth a pig's ass, Los Andes runs a DyN story that says that in an average month there are 500 car accidents and 600 hit pedestrians just in the city of Buenos Aires. So the next time you see a car in B.A., remember your what they taught you to do if, um, your clothes caught on fire: Stop, drop and roll. Or just run.

 

[bigbadwolf]

The following comment in from one of the blogs (http://expat-argentina.blogspot.com/2006/09/my-first-argentina-protest.html) whose link is provided in the baexpats homepage:Viva Argentina said...
Visit any Hospital in Buenos Aires, I work as a Doctor in a public hospital here. I can assure you that often there is no 'internal locus of control' left for those brought in from accidents where no seats belts were used.

Argentina has the highest car accident mortality rate in the world, yes higher than India or even Iraq. I still have hope that this disregard to safety will lessen and mature over time, but it's not helped by visitors to our country making ignorant remarks to disconnect personal freedom from civil responsibilities.