Peronist Future?

EJLarson

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Really interested in hearing views from those of you (many, many) who know more than I do about the current political situation.

Reading the local papers there's all sorts of news and opinion about what the peronists will/could/should do next. Seems to be a given that cfk will have a large say about that. But some counteropinion suggests that she, without the power of the presidency to back her (and the treasury as her own personal checking account), becomes little more than another voice in the din.

So what's the prediction? Have the k's shot their bolt and will have to move to the side? Or will they remain kingmakers?

Now the peronists have actually lost a presidential election that isn't just a radical-toggle. If MM isn't a total flop, might their chokehold on Argentine politics be weakened?
 
Just one note: it seems a common misconception on this site to think that Frente para la Victoria = Peronism. Nothing could be further from the truth.

The group in power now is a coalition of various tendencies, some Peronist, others not (just as the incoming coalition is a mix of Radicals, Socialists, Liberals... and even some Peronists). For example, Massa is a Peronist, as were many of his voters. While it is true that Macri, a non-Peronist, defeated Scioli, a Peronist, this is not the first time this has happened in Argentine history (De la Rúa, 1999) and it did not mean the end of the Peronist movement.

The question as to the role FpV will play now as opposition is a good one, but Peronism does not stop and start at CFK's front door.

-- Ed
 
Just one note: it seems a common misconception on this site to think that Frente para la Victoria = Peronism. Nothing could be further from the truth.

The group in power now is a coalition of various tendencies, some Peronist, others not (just as the incoming coalition is a mix of Radicals, Socialists, Liberals... and even some Peronists). For example, Massa is a Peronist, as were many of his voters. While it is true that Macri, a non-Peronist, defeated Scioli, a Peronist, this is not the first time this has happened in Argentine history (De la Rúa, 1999) and it did not mean the end of the Peronist movement.

The question as to the role FpV will play now as opposition is a good one, but Peronism does not stop and start at CFK's front door.

-- Ed
Which is exactly the point that I was trying (maybe not too successfully) to make. The k's have dominated peronism for 12 years. Will they continue to dominate, or will newer, maybe less shrill, voices come to the front?

Just read in Bubble that Aníbal thinks he will lead the opposition. Will anyone oppose that?
 
I think it is not just that site that thinks so. I have read a number of Italian newspaper articles calling this the 'historical end of peronism'. It looks like people use "populism" and "peronism" interchangeably these days. I still have to understand what a "peronista" is, as sometimes I have seen it is used to indicate somebody "good" ("ser un buen peronista").
 
Peronismo means nothing for the generation under 40 perhaps 50 ? Peronismo is used by populist caudillos to gain and remain in power.

Zanini the Defeated candidate for VP said it today "The Rich Voted for MAcri , the Poor for Scioli",,,, :D 51 % Rich in Argentine..!! or 48 Poor?? B)
"Lie lie something sticks" Goebels
 
I think it is not just that site that thinks so. I have read a number of Italian newspaper articles calling this the 'historical end of peronism'. It looks like people use "populism" and "peronism" interchangeably these days. I still have to understand what a "peronista" is, as sometimes I have seen it is used to indicate somebody "good" ("ser un buen peronista").

I don't think anyone, including Juan Domingo, ever knew what peronism meant philosophically, because it was all about strategy and tactics to gain and hold power. Populism was probably the most important part and of course he got that from Evita. She, in turn, possibly had an affinity for the poor, but everything I've ever heard always described her hatred of the oligarchy (hence the rich) as her driving force.

But I started this to learn, not talk, so I'll sit back and enjoy the discussion.
 
EJLarson : Your statement is about as close a definition of Peronism available.Because it really has no exact definition.That's why in around 1973 when Jose Bel-Gelbard of 0 inflation fame told Peron that he was beginning to be a Peronist,Peron told him,"Really,and just when I am stopping being one"
As Herminio Iglesias famously said,"Peronism is a "sensacion" -a feeling ".Feelings change as do power struggles and totalitarian tactics to gain and hold control.Call it Peronism or FpV those are its main aims disguised under some other true and appreciable gains like equallity and social justice.But its bottom line is perpetuation in power and spoils.
 
When I was here as a turist (last year), I happened to stumble into a Campora Xmas party in a restaurant in Puerto Madero, at a very tipsy stage (them, not me at that time). I had absolutely no idea what peronism involves, aside from Evita. They were extremely friendly and welcoming people, very optimistic about the future, not unlike a church. I was actually impressed by the fact they loved and respected their own president, a rare phenomenon in this world. In the part of the world where I come from it's something absolutely unheard of. Here are some of their own definitions I remember from that day:
    • Peronist is someone who cares about the people and human rights.
    • Peronist is not right or left. Peronist goes right when it's time to go right, and left when it's time to go left.
    • Every Argentinian patriot is a Peronist.
 
When I was here as a turist (last year), I happened to stumble into a Campora Xmas party in a restaurant in Puerto Madero, at a very tipsy stage (them, not me at that time). I had absolutely no idea what peronism involves, aside from Evita. They were extremely friendly and welcoming people, very optimistic about the future, not unlike a church. I was actually impressed by the fact they loved and respected their own president, a rare phenomenon in this world. In the part of the world where I come from it's something absolutely unheard of. Here are some of their own definitions I remember from that day:
    • Peronist is someone who cares about the people and human rights.
    • Peronist is not right or left. Peronist goes right when it's time to go right, and left when it's time to go left.
    • Every Argentinian patriot is a Peronist.

lol
 
I had read the OP and was going to comment nearly the exact same thing that EdRooney said (though he surely said it more succinctly than I am usually capable), but I had to go to the supermarket, buy the girls some clothes for a school production tomorrow, etc. Hehe.

Peronism is populism as well. But I think that many people who believe in "Peronism", while mostly wrong-headed (hey, it's my opinion), are probably sincere in their desire to make things better. The fact that it's not a well-defined set of policies makes it easily attack-able by other populists such as Cristina.

The fact is, the K twisted a whole bunch of bizarre thinking together with populism and fascism and this idea that young, inexperienced people can do as well in high-level government jobs as others who have years of experience - just because they have the right beliefs (or so it all seems to me).

That Massa, a peronist, broke completely with Cristina and made his own attempt at the presidency, and then put himself in with Macri (while telling him "we're going to be watching you"), and then Macri actually winning over Cristina's ostensibly peronist candidate, is telling to me how much peronists don't agree that what Cristina was doing was not what they considered to be peronism. The fact that Scioli made it a fairly close run in the end is also telling as to how much it costs many in this society, in these days, to vote other than peronist en masse at least. In fact, I'd bet most of Massa's supporters (well, I don't know, at least half?) voted for Scioli.

The only way I can see peronism being finished here is if Macri gets 8 years in the Pink House, not only turns the economy around, but actually improves things across the board significantly for a whole lot of people of various economic strata, and replaces Peron as the new Culture/Cult Hero. Frankly, I don't see that happening, for a whole slew of reasons which don't have to much to do with Macri himself (yet), as we haven't seen how he will perform to know if he's even capable.

I also see a danger that Cristina could return with her stupidity after 4 years. If Macri completely fails (again, for whatever reason), she's poised to come back and say "see, I told you so. Look at the mess these guys made. Gee whiz guys, I have to come back in and clean things up. Remember how we had no poverty during my time? No unemployment? I'll get us back there again." And Massa, the best peronist (in my opinion) who ran in the campaign, will have been seen by so many voters from the runoff as the guy who sided with the devil against the hero (ostensibly Scioli, from Cristina's point of view). With all the propaganda storm that could be waiting in the wings, Argentinos seem to have variable memories at the "why, who, what and when".

I hope that never happens! I feel that most governments function well-enough for the majority of people when they enforce the laws with everyone and don't try to make special cases for those who "deserve" something special. It's always meddling in things too complex for fine control (at least to date) that causes blow-back that few see coming. Cristina was not only a meddler, but a meddler who had no idea what to do to make things better. And that's giving her the benefit of the doubt that she really to make change for the better, no matter how wrong-headed, and that she wasn't just in it to become another Evita made queen.

Hopefully what Macri's election to the presidency means is an end to Kirchnerism, not Peronism. That would be acceptable to me and probably a whole lot of Argentinos.
 
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