Pomar Family

[perry]

No, Ailujjj, what you state as a universal norm is just your cultural asumption. In China, Bolivia,the norm for kids is to travel with their parents on motorcycles without helmets and they feel totally confortable about it.

What is true with distance is also true with time. 100 years ago, when we had larger families, this was totally acceptable to loose on child or two, this was regarded as something normal. There was no drama and life long culpabilisation.

I understand that your beliefs can be hurt while confronted to other cultures, but this is what travelling is about...learning from others, not willing to impose your standards to others.

In some parts of Canada, it is compulsary to wear a helmet, while in other not. Who is right? Those who want to take zero risks or those who want to enjoy the feeling of the wind on their hair?

Remember that, even tho Buenos Aires might look like a modern international town, it is still located in South America. Open your eyes, watch the kids sleeping in the streets, the horse propelled trailers collecting garbage...this is not homeland.

And yes, truth can be annoyingly politically incorrect, if you are not prepared to open your mind to other realities.

I find the above post very sad and tragic . How can anyone equate freedom to feeling the wind on their hair.

I do not believe for one moment that the scenes of a man with two kids falling off the back of a motorcycle shows freedom . If you wish to risk your own life do it but to do this with innocent children is plain stupidity and carelessness. In most cases it is carelessness and in very few cases it is poverty as some are saying. If you can afford to buy a motorcycle and afford the petrol buy a helmet for your children as they are all you have. If you do not want children do not have them simple or adopt them . The arguments by the above poster are the most silly I have ever read here in a long time.

 

[steveinbsas]

....welcome in the paradise of spychoanalysis, antianxiolitics and antidepressants...

You don't really want us to conclude that you are too psycho or too drugged to spell correctly, do you?

 

[fifilafiloche]

No simply that i m french, and as a matter of fact, i learnt to spell them the french way This is called an accent and from the feedback i got, it seems fairly popular, be it in english, spanish or german

Pericles has never been so generous in thanks...i feel him getting submerged by the love this continent has to offer

Welcome fellow Jet Set travellers "say it in english, just say it in out of MY way, Jet Set, Get out of MY way"

 

[steveinbsas]

No simply that i m french, and as a matter of fact, i learnt to spell them the french way This is called an accent and from the feedback i got, it seems fairly popular, be it in english, spanish or german

Pericles has never been so generous in thanks...i feel him getting submerged by the love this continent has to offer

Comment dites-vous ingrat en français?

My French is not so good, I must say.

 

[Ailujjj]

So you're the prophet, who can reveal to me the politically-incorrect truths of the rest of the world? Dis-toi.

Let's ignore the fact that if you want to get really technical, Argentina is my homeland by birth, and focus on the fact that in your need to patronize, you've once more confounded convention with culture. It is ludicrous and insulting to deem basic safety as a cultural norm. In your 'examples', in addition to being fundamentally unsound logical arguments (see: fallacy), these are extremely poor countries in which primary health and education needs are not met. A convention based out of ignorance and poverty is not a choice. Give those people information about how helmets/carseats protect their children and provide them to them for free and see how many would decide their CULTURE is being compromised. As I said, the desire to keep one's children safe is universal. Not HOW we do it.

Following your own example, it would stand to reason that many children are fed garapa as their sole meal because of cultural preference...not out of poverty, part of a phenomenon of systematic starvation (as opposed to starvation caused by a sudden lack of any food). Really?

Cependant, belle démonstration de ta part à quel point Rousseau avait raison: les idées générales et abstraites sont la source des plus grandes erreurs des hommes.

 

[ElQueso]

The cars here are old & unsafe in an accident and then people don't wear thier seat belts.

Actually, have you seen the old cars that are driven and how slow they go? They aren't the problems. It's the people with decent cars who fly down the road.

Besides, looking at that link by Moxon (if it wasn't on his link, it was on one of the ones I researched when looking at that link), the analysis said that most accidents, even in places where cars were not as good, did not happen because of equipment failures, but because of poor driving habits.

I actually find this fascinating that people think this crap is being made up and that the roads in Argentina are safe.

 

[fifilafiloche]

Merci pour le compliment Ailujjj

This is natural for a mother to wish the best for her child. Mothers of the northern hemisphere in their majority work full time, having as a matter of fact much less time/love to give to their family. Economic pressure has something to do with this, since it is very difficult for a single person to coop with family spendings.

Back to the topic. If you go to Rome, Italy, you will find out that the way of driving is unbearably messy for most North Americans. The more south you will go, the wilder the drivers. If you take the highway there, driving at speed limit will leave you on the right side, you would be an hinderance on the left passing side. You will do the same experience in Spain or Greece.

There is indeed a cultural factor in the way of driving. This is a country peopled in majority by mediterranean descents who inherited from a mediterranean culture. Police in Italy faces the same problems to oblige locals to wear a helmet. This would be tho abusive to rank Italy as a developing country plaged by poverty.

You might be born in Argentine and be raised in another country which will make you a total stranger regarding local customs. We had a guest this month here whose father is Argentine. He was raised in the US and can t articulate spanish enough for a normal conversation.

You defend your point of view with strength, which means that you feel it strongly. This shouldnt lure you into believing that you point of view is universal. You are a produce of your environment.

I also feel strongly what i m saying, since this is the result of my observations around the world. But you can notice i didn t use gross words that would be meant to insult contradictors, unlike what i observed from them. I guess in their environment it might be valorising, in mine this is regarded as a lack of self control (weakness).

 

[ElQueso]

fifilafiloche, dude - for real?.

Your quote: "100 years ago, when we had larger families, this was totally acceptable to loose on child or two, this was regarded as something normal. There was no drama and life long culpabilisation."

Wow. Dude, first of all, you talk to anyone a hundred years ago who had larger families and tell me they didn't morn deeply over every lost child and I'll have to call you a liar. My grandmother, who died this year at 92, remembered all three of her siblings who died - two in their infancy and one at 6 years. That was something that stayed with her all of her life, and I can guarantee you that it stayed at least with her mother, the one who bore those children into the world, for her whole life as well.

No drama and life-long guilt (I think that's probably what you meant to say)? Maybe not drama, but that's because it was REAL BAD in olden times for peons. Even for merchants and people of means it wasn't all that great. But things like survivor guilt perhaps, or remembering a sibling who died in childbirth, or even months or a few years later of disease - do you really think they were just forgotten and never paid any more attention????

Do you think that people who went through that shit were actually mentally well-adjusted? Do you think that people who lived 100, 200, 300 and futher back in time weren't traumatized by the shit that happened to them ALL THE TIME just because it was "normal"? Of course there wasn't drama like there would be today, but that was because they didn't know better. They were also very affected mentally by all the crap they went through.

I doubt very much things are that different in France regarding the value of human life. I think you're trying to make an argument that didn't make much sense to begin with and are trying to stretch it to where it just can't fit.

And even then, somehow you went from people who ignore the laws here do it because it is the culture only and really people here just don't give a crap about life because Argentina is poor and poorer people have bigger families and since bigger families means it's ok to have a few deaths that's how it plays out here?

 

[fifilafiloche]

No fellow monger, i m trying to be as sincere as possible with what i observed and express it as accuratly as i can in a close, but foreign language. But to be sincere with others, you need to be sincere with yourself, not trying to display the best possible social appearance.

My grand mother had 9 children, 7 of which survived (wealthy entrepreneurial family). She lost an arm on a railtrack as well. She never talked about those losses as a drama, but as simple fact of life. She kept watching ahead.

 

[perry]

So you're the prophet, who can reveal to me the politically-incorrect truths of the rest of the world? Dis-toi.

Let's ignore the fact that if you want to get really technical, Argentina is my homeland by birth, and focus on the fact that in your need to patronize, you've once more confounded convention with culture. It is ludicrous and insulting to deem basic safety as a cultural norm. In your 'examples', in addition to being fundamentally unsound logical arguments (see: fallacy), these are extremely poor countries in which primary health and education needs are not met. A convention based out of ignorance and poverty is not a choice. Give those people information about how helmets/carseats protect their children and provide them to them for free and see how many would decide their CULTURE is being compromised. As I said, the desire to keep one's children safe is universal. Not HOW we do it.

Following your own example, it would stand to reason that many children are fed garapa as their sole meal because of cultural preference...not out of poverty, part of a phenomenon of systematic starvation (as opposed to starvation caused by a sudden lack of any food). Really?

Cependant, belle démonstration de ta part à quel point Rousseau avait raison: les idées générales et abstraites sont la source des plus grandes erreurs des hommes.

One of the best posts I have read on this forum and answers all this patronising comments that we are in the Third world and have no chance to buy a helmet or slow down when driving or we are Latin and we need to act crazy and drive like lunatics and this is great and acceptable as Europe is too controlled and sterile and so on and so on.

In regards to the loss of a child there is no greater loss for a mother be it in the Third world or First world . The comments posted today by that Frenchman have no understanding what Argentina means to us as expats as well as Nationals . How insensitive people can be with their notions of their society which is very far from the reality and only serves to fullfill their warped fantasies.