Pomar Family

[fifilafiloche]

When somebody talks repeatedly about emotions, it s time to ask yourself if he is not being manipulative, since emotions are strong opinion and action vectors. To be a good salesman, you have to know how to use emotional strings.

This is nothing new to marketers. Fear and sex are two important marketing vehicules, used to sell all kind of artificial products. The case of the children sits is a marginal illustration, this is mainly applicable to insurances.

The war on Irak was also sold this way to a population accustomed to marketers messages on daily basis.

To avoid those manipulative influences, you need to stay connected with yourself.

 

[ElQueso]

Thinking about this whole thing, the truth is I'm not sure what conclusion to draw.

I can understand where you're coming from as far as saying that deaths in big families were not as big a deal as they are now. I don't agree that it wasn't traumatic, however. My grandmother, as well, had to keep going in the face of whatever was thrown at her, but that doesn't mean that those deaths didn't hurt and leave an impact on her.

But supposing for a moment that we are talking about things that, whatever the epoch, were unavoidable facts of life. I don't see how one can equate the cultural failing to enforce traffic laws, thereby making things really more unsafe than they need be, and therefore causing more death and mayhem than is necessary (not just to individuals who choose to be dangerous, but also to those who are trying to get through life) to something that was unavoidable in times past.

Yes, the Argentine culture does tend to ignore laws wholesale at times, and I agree that this can be very good for someone who comes to live here and enjoys a more lax environment than where he came (that certainly describes me - it's one of the biggest reasons I stay here [although not the only!]). But there are also many Argentines who wish that some of the laws, particularly those regarding traffic laws, would be a little better enforced. I know this because it's one of the biggest complaints that I hear from local friends here who drive.

Culturally, that is a desire that has more than a few proponents. Politically, there are probably many reasons why the laws are not enforced, from corruption and an uncaring ruling class, to laws related to removing powers from the police because of some things that happened during the Dirty War.

We're in a country where prostitution is actually legal. They didn't pussy-foot around that one - if they wanted to allow dangerous things like crazy drivers to be legal, they could have just ignored those laws and gone on about their business. Of course, that also goes for most other laws that are ignored. So that leaves me back to square one.

 

[fifilafiloche]

Cher Fromage,

What makes you a human being is the ice and fire that forged you as you are. Losses are part of the process, like the beauty of a statue is made out of losses of a block of raw material.

Luck and fatalism are not acceptable in our western societies, they play a strong role in the middle east and eastern countries. The belief that men are in total control of their destiny and environment is marginal amongst the global human community. This is a legacy from the anglo saxon protestant culture.

Oddly enough, if you care to read Malthusianism that gave birth to Darwinist analysis, dominant in the us american society, you will understand the role of hazard and self regulation.

This is what i call opening your mind to other understandings.

 

[orwellian]

So what was the conspiracy about?

 

[mini]

Actually, have you seen the old cars that are driven and how slow they go? They aren't the problems. It's the people with decent cars who fly down the road.
I actually find this fascinating that people think this crap is being made up and that the roads in Argentina are safe.

There is in fact a correlation with how fast you can go safely with the age and design of the car. I'm sure you know that & I don't need to tell you.

Get yourself into an accident in a Fiat 500 with no head support and no seat belt and even at slower speeds you are much bigger danger than if you were in a Volvo with your seat belt on, for example. If you don't wear your seat belt you can be expelled from a vehicle and killed where as with your seat belt you would sustain minor injuries, as what happened to the Pomar family. Did you read that three of the bodies were found expelled from the car??

Accidents happen. How safe your car is is extremely important. I know this isn't a new concept for you.

And I don't see where I said the roads were safe. In fact, I believe I said there is a lot to be done to make the roads safer, in fact, I spelled some of them out above.

 

[Lucas]

As often seems to be the case with you Pericles it depends on whether one constructs ones world from hearsay and vague notions of how things should be or facts. Like your comical claim that the Australian aboriginal population has the second worst quality of life in the world after China - I can find no evidence of your claims about Argentine road fatalities. There are many different statistical measures for road fatalities (and disagreement over which gives the more accurate picture), perhaps you can find one that ranks Argentina the worst in the world (though again, like your claim about the Aborigines -and the Chinese!- this would no doubt entail a very limited definition of 'world'). Anyhow this is irrelevant, here you are claiming on simple per capita terms Argentina is the worst (or second worst?) in the world.

Well, I guess at least here Argentina ranks fourth (albeit alphabetically).

Please have a look to one of the latest Australian movies about aboriginal young people and maybe then your opinion will change. The movie name is "Samson & Delilah" 2009, worth watching...probably the only way to get it in Arg. will be a bootleg one though.

In reference to the traffic accidents and the peoples driving attitudes in this country, I can only say they're appalling and may require a mayor change of culture and a generational attitude of father to child at the family level with help from the educational system and the media to overcame such a terrible tragedy, it's not a question of law enforcement it's more a question of education and conscience of young and old driving by example, and then later on law enforcement but example at all levels in the society is paramount to become a successful reality.

 

[Moxon]

Please have a look to one of the latest Australian movies about aboriginal young people and maybe then your opinion will change. The movie name is "Samson & Delilah" 2009, worth watching...probably the only way to get it in Arg. will be a bootleg one though.

Really, Samson and Delilah proves that the Australian aboriginal population has the second worst standard of living in the world? Does it also prove that the Chinese have the worst? Please explain how.

 

[ElQueso]

There is in fact a correlation with how fast you can go safely with the age and design of the car. I'm sure you know that & I don't need to tell you.

Get yourself into an accident in a Fiat 500 with no head support and no seat belt and even at slower speeds you are much bigger danger than if you were in a Volvo with your seat belt on, for example. If you don't wear your seat belt you can be expelled from a vehicle and killed where as with your seat belt you would sustain minor injuries, as what happened to the Pomar family. Did you read that three of the bodies were found expelled from the car??

Accidents happen. How safe your car is is extremely important. I know this isn't a new concept for you.

And I don't see where I said the roads were safe. In fact, I believe I said there is a lot to be done to make the roads safer, in fact, I spelled some of them out above.

Mini, first I apologize, I realize that when someone quotes someone, says something, and then makes another statement that it seems like everyhting that is being said is related to the quote.

I didn't mean to say that YOU thought what was being said about the safety of the roads was crap. I was just making one comment about the age of the cars themselves not factoring much into the cause of accidents, in my opinion (and the opinion of the article that Moxon linked to).

My later statement about what people were thinking related to culture and or/safety on the road wasn't directed at you.

Another thing though, related to sealt belts; I agree with you that that has something to do with casualties being higher than they should be, on top of the reckless driving. However, it is not the cause of the accidents themselves. The point I was trying to make is that reckless driving causes the accidents and there is plenty of it and traffic law enforcement would help that out significantly.

The seatbelts could be seen as an evolutionary kind of thing related to intelligence, and I would be happy to leave it at that, except for all the kids that are killed as a result of their parents' stupidity or ignorance.

 

[mini]

Ok. Thanks for that. It's difficult to figure some times if "you are talking to me", if you know what I mean.

Another thing though, related to sealt belts; I agree with you that that has something to do with casualties being higher than they should be, on top of the reckless driving. However, it is not the cause of the accidents themselves. The point I was trying to make is that reckless driving causes the accidents and there is plenty of it and traffic law enforcement would help that out significantly.

Lack of seatbelts & unsafe cars is not the cause of the accident. It is the cause of many senseless fatalities that would otherwise be injuries.

The statistics we are discussing & the one that Pericles & Moxon are debating (I think) is the number of 'fatalities' not the number of accidents. Safer cars = lower fatalities.

Anyway, I personally do not think "speed" in & of itself kills. There are other things when combined with speed that kill. Including as you said reckless driving, disregarding the rules of the road, aggressiveness, unsafe cars, bad roads, etc.... Put that all together = me no drive here! ;D

 

[perry]

Mostly we all agree that Argentinas road figues are very high and most people also agree that the driving here is very bad . Every is well aware that statistics are manipulated in the western media to create their desired effect . Does everyone remember all the studies about Iraq nuclear weapons that were confirmed by everyone from George Bush, tony Blair , and all the CIA reports with reports updated on a daily basis. These were fed to us as facts before the war . Now we know that they were damn lies and damn lies.

Argentina has a very high road toll per capita certainly much higher than Europe and the USA . I like someone here to name one country in Europe with worse road toll figures? The excuse about cars is invalid as Argentinas cars are not the problem. Its the drivers and the attitudes in driving fullstop.
The amount of deaths on the province roads are disturbing and the government and provincinces must act now to change this for the betterment of the Argentinian society.