Racism In Ba?!??

[TwentyThousandRoads]

@Camberlu, that was quite a breakdown. The historical analysis is pretty much flawless... I still have a coin from the '70s celebrating the 'conquista del desierto' / massacre of the Indians, minted under the nazi-inspired dictatorship. But this is also a country -- or let's say a city -- that took immigrants from everywhere, including my own grandparents who weren't wanted by any other country in the rest of the world. It was not especially friendly to them, or easy for them, and my grandfather sold fabric on the streets the way Bolivians do now. To a greater extent than most cities in the Latin world, Buenos Aires is at least tolerant of immigrants. Way more so than Madrid or Rome, for instance. And like you pointed out, there also aren't gangs of right-wing thugs beating people up like in Slovakia [or Alabama, or some parts of France now]. But you're entirely right that people here are prejudiced and largely based on perceived socio-economic indicators. I think it's less based on skin color or specifically racial "theories" here than it is in Chile or Mexico or even Spain. As a nominally white guy who hears what white people say about everyone including my own race, I have never heard an Argentine openly express an opinion about a race of people being inferior or superior. I think the worst I ever heard was a taxi driver here who asked why we have so many black people on TV in America. I said, because there are lots of black people in America. But that guy was clearly on drugs and wasn't a representative sample. On the other hand, practically every white person I met in Chile can't wait to unload the notion that white people are superior, and anyone there with brown skin wants to find a way to look whiter. I consider Chile an extremely racist country with major issues about it. Argentina... not so much. Or like you said, it doesn't manifest in the same way here. And definitely not in Palermo or the areas you'd be likely to live in if you were an American visiting for awhile.

 

[garryl]

I think in Europe they are much more racist/xenophobe and conservative. I don't think you will experience any racism if you'll live in a rich and developed barrio like the areas of Palermo you have been suggested. Lots of expats, lots of well educated people, people who travelled a lots, foreigners, tourists.

Besides, there is a lot more than skin that tells where you are from, especially in a country like this one which has been commercially isolated for some years. Your clothes, the way you wear your hair, the way you move or behave, your accessories, your phone, etc. I think you'll do fine here.

Pick Buenos Aires over Paris!

"your accessires, and your phone". Haha, electromics deprived Argentina. It's true. My Argie friend has a very old Nokia phone, he is so embarrassed, he said he sends text with his phone in his pocket. Hopefully, with the new government, electronics will flood Argentina and everyone will have a new smart phone. A nice phone will show give one more or less social status,

 

[nicoenarg]

As a non-caucasian person ( ) I was told countless times before coming here that "Argentines are the most racist, hateful people in South America". Often Brazilians and Uruguayans were the first ones to jump up and say "Argentina...RACIST!!". I came here thinking people were just going to either spit on me or stab me for being different.

However, Argentines are nothing like people painted them to be. As a society Argentines (or at least porteños) are the most welcoming people I have ever seen (and I don't care if a statistic exists somewhere that says XYZ is in reality more welcoming). I live in Almagro (about 5 blocks from Once) and anyone who knows Buenos Aires will tell you that it is not a rich neighborhood, far from it. And no one's ever gone "yo dude, you've got darker pigment in your skin, you're not welcome here! Arghhh, rage!!" I have hung out with totally white, blond haired blue eyed farming families of the provincia (of Buenos Aires) and Misiones, you know, people who are just supposed to be racist or they stop existing? Yeah, no racism.

However, I personally don't give a flying rat's hind parts about things like "micro aggression" (whatever the heck that means) if someone wants to know where I'm from and then proceeds to ask where I'm really from (happens in Argentina too) or sit at home wondering and worrying about what someone said or whether there are enough people of my skin color in a given political party/tv show/movie/grocery store.

I have seen a white teenager hurling racial slurs at a black guy and the black guy hurling racial slurs back at the white teenager because they bumped into each other. All the people around them did was shake their heads and then proceeded to ignore. I'm sure if the same thing had happened in Sensitive Town, USA or UK or what have you, half the friggin country would be busy talking about it and the other half visiting the shrink because of how traumatic that experience was.

I think if you want to have a good time here then you have to stop reading the blogs and experience this country for what it really is. Rather than worry about the racist ( ) viewpoint that others have about Argentines, try to understand that this country is not politically correct, or at least not as much as the US/Europe etc, (and I thank God every day for it!) People here don't care about having discussions about what words they should or shouldn't use. For example, people who are slightly darker than those around them, they are sometimes called "negra/negro" by their friends and the weirdest part is, no one has multiple heart attacks over it and dies! Not even the darker skinned person.

With all that said racism exists here, it exists everywhere. Just avoid the @$$holes you come across and you're not going to end up ruining your time here.

 

[Girino]

I have never heard an Argentine openly express an opinion about a race of people being inferior or superior.

I do, and they usually have it against the Bolivians, the Paraguayans, in a smaller measure against Peruvians and Chileans. But I don't think there is a fundament to that, they just represent the countries from South American who are (perceived) as less developed than Argentina, whose people are coming here to "exploit" the Argentine health care and school system.
It is exactly the same thing I hear in Italy about the Romanians, Maghrebins, Eastern Europeans coming to Italy.

But see it this way:

• If someone from a poorer/less developed country comes to your country you dislike them because they 'lower the standard'
• If someone from a richer/more developed country comes to your country you dislike them because they 'exploit your country'

People always complain!

 

[camberiu]

I do, and they usually have it against the Bolivians, the Paraguayans, in a smaller measure against Peruvians and Chileans. But I don't think there is a fundament to that, they just represent the countries from South American who are (perceived) as less developed than Argentina, whose people are coming here to "exploit" the Argentine health care and school system.
It is exactly the same thing I hear in Italy about the Romanians, Maghrebins, Eastern Europeans coming to Italy.

I'd agree with you, if I had not heard several times comments such as "Brazil would rival the United States, if it didn't have so many black people". And they say it as if they were talking about the weather, not realizing that almost all Brazilians, even the white looking ones, have at least some black ancestry.

 

[Jennifer Lee]

One thing that's worth mentioning is that there are a lot of insults that are racially motivated and can be heard often in everyday conversations. Comparing particular groups of people to "mierda," for example, can be heard walking down the streets whenever a soccer match is on TV. There are also many derogatory comments I've heard about people from China who work in neighborhood groceries.

It's often chalked up as "un chiste" when in reality it's offensive.

 

[semigoodlookin]

My whole extended family use the word negro for someone who is low or they perceive as a scumbag. They use that term even for white people, but the implication that they are low class or scumbag as compared to black people (or in this case "natives") is obvious. Maybe I have been thankfully sheltered enough to have avoided racism extensively, but I have noticed it a lot since coming here. Not outward slurs per se, but certainly just a general feeling "white Argentine's good, others low, stupid, lacking class etc. etc.) Institutional racism is pretty rife here too.

As a side note, has anyone noticed just how white the TV is here?

 

[Rich One]

Racial Hostility NO, Racial Discrimination Plenty... (10 years Experience in Argentina)

Many complaints from darker skin people refused entry at clubs, and similar . African descent (black),no recent XP very few in BA other than in Avenida Corrientes selling fake watches and Louis Vuitton bags .

 

[Idois]

...practically every white person I met in Chile can't wait to unload the notion that white people are superior...

This highlighted part says more about your way of thinking than about Chileans. Ever wondered why you met/run into such people? ;-)

 

[nyer4ever]

Hi Lucy,

I'm a New Yorker of Afro Latino and Caribbean descent. Married to a blonde Argentine and we have kids.

I've experienced more racism in the US, Europe and Brasil than I have here. And by racism I mean denied employment, housing, harassment by police, security guards, etc.

Yes, you will get looks out of curiosity etc... but you would in Iceland too.

There are things that are infuriating here like the "negro de mierda" or the BlancaFlor logo, but I can't say that Argentina is a racist country when comparing it to the US or to Europe.

Live your life, have fun, try not to bring the US energy of race into your daily life here, but don't be a "hill" and not speak up when someone says something ignorant.

Suerte!

PM me if you need help.