Respect

[ben]

Of the whole three-ring circus associated with CFK's return to Argentina, this bit about the various chants outside CFK's apartment attracted my attention.

Maybe I'm reading too much into this and I simply don't realize that cagón is a normal word to sing in the streets at a political demonstration (I'm not discussing the maturity level here, just the formal acceptability), but methinks that this isn't too far from singing 'Cristina yegua' or something of the sort. Something that - notwithstanding how the K contingent here cries about it - simply could not, would not happen. On a quasi-anonymous internet comments section, maybe - anything goes there. But out loud, on the street? Dont think it could happen.

And yet look here, and this is precisely what does happen. This is not some 80-year-old bitter senile lady, this is a whole crowd. Singing in front of their leader, whom they clearly expect to condone this. Calling your sitting president, whatever you think of his policies, a "gorilla loose in the Rosada"? At a public event? Really?

It struck me at the same time that the conspiracy minded, transparently false stuff from Diario Registrado, simply does not happen in any other sector of Argentine society. Do politicians - and all people, for that matter - lie? Sure. But transparent, shameless stuff that could only appeal to the hopelessly biased or the woefully ignorant - this is a K phenomenon. And it shows in a huge multitude of details. The brazenness of the thievery coming to light now. The audacity of the futures fraud, which normally people would simply be to embarrassed to do, even if you couldn't convict them on it. The list could go on forever.

And it hit me: Kirchnerismo simply has no respect for anyone. Not for rival parties, not for their own people (patronizing, yes. respect? no). Not for Argentine society. Certainly not for the patria they never tire of invoking. They don't respect institutions, people, nothing.

2 questions occured to me:

1. Could a normal, basic, non-partisan civic education be enough to doom Kirchnerismo?
   
2. Is all of the above true regarding Peronism in general, or is there a normal, self-respecting branch there?
   I've always known Peronism and Kirchnerism to be one and the same, but with the fissures appearing, there (now) appeats to exist a whole bunch of self-declared Peronists who seem to be ready to do business. Massa appears to be an example. Urtubey, Bossi et all, for another.
   Hell, now they're saying that Nestor himself was more sophisticated and would never have allowed the wholesale descent into madness that subsequently happened to take place on his watch.

Thoughts?

 

[wineguy999]

I (and others I know) have long felt that the real madness did not begin until after Nestor's death.

 

[Noesdeayer]

ben:
You sound like an intelligent person to me.Haven't you yet realized that about 75% of the male kirchneristas are eternal adolecents?
The females considerably less maybe 30%.

 

[RichardP]

Haven't you yet realized that about 75% of the male kirchneristas are eternal adolecents?

I have heard women, both local and foreign, say that about Argentine men in general.

 

[gpop]

As a former colleague of mine described the "Argentine Modus Operandi" to folks visiting from the US: "Argentines are opportunists". Openly shameless, short-sighted, callous. I don't understand it in the form it takes here; although I'm sure the same goes on even in the developed nations; just better veiled, or when no one is looking . Even the boss lady once told me that "in Argentina, honesty is for suckers"... so there you have it.

I don't know that it's something that can change. To educate a BETTER CIVIC ARGENTINE, there needs to be those that can teach that behaviour as well as practice it. Crossing the street with my wife and daughter - I wait for the light to change to green before I even step off the curb, holding my daughters hand... my wife is already halfway across with cars honking at her (despite several discussions about this kind of thing, she continues to relapse into the typical habits). Perhaps these behaviours are too deep, and conflicting to the young across various socioeconomic levels.

 

[estebandepraga]

There are many wondeful and respectful Argentines( I consider myself very respectful) but there is a huge amount who are not, like in many places in the world! But when one doesn't have respect to follow starting at the head of a country...in the past... what can one expect? Surprised it's not even more!

 

[syngirl]

Until monday night I hadn't actually realised just how pleasant the past few months have been without the Ks and the Kampora spewing their constant hate campaigns. They live to divide and foment hatred. Macri may have had some illegal activities but we haven't seen him lashing out and spewing vitriol left right and centre. Kristina is just so horrible it's like cornering a wild animal. The Kamporistas today physically assaulted a journalist and set up a human wall to control entry into Commodoro Py -- how can it be that this organisation, which has no law enforcement authority whatsoever, be allowed to take over a public space like that and physically confront and assault private citizens?

It was a nice respite from the constant speeches and Canal nacionales. Now she has returned (as if she had a choice!!) the hatred is filling the airwaves once again.

 

[Noesdeayer]

gpop:
Absolutely!
However,I am glad you said it,instead of me.Because when I tell Argies things like that I am accussed of thinking like a U.S imperialist.
The civic responsibility here is getting better though.in the 1960s and '70s they didn't obey hardly any traffic laws or traffic lights and cut in constantly on any kind of line at all..
The byword was the saying in Spanish," Quien me sigue que se joda"----"Scew the one who comes after me".
It has markedly improved Many people here have come to realize that total individualism doesn't really work to their benefit.

 

[Somewhereinba]

Why is "SHE" back on TV screaming at people again. I thought we could finally see the end of her propaganda - all the TV channels showing her.. Make it stop please

 

[Bajo_cero2]

Ben, peronismo and Kirchnerismo are not the same. Peron enacted a new Constitution in 1949 that was later abolished by the coup. The main difference is while Peronistas ignore the NC and enforce the constitution of the 49', the K recognize and enforce the NC plus the human rights international treatries.

The second difference is the Kirchnerismo is an alliance of peronism plus radicalismo alfonsinista (Moureau for example), comunism (Sabatella), socialist and the right wing (Massa and Isurralde came from UCEDE). You also have people like Salas that I don't know how to describe her politically.

You talk about respect. As far as I know, the speach of hate began with the supporters of the President that refers to whoever who disagree with them like Kukas, Kakas, they call the former President la Shegua, etc.

However, the lack of respect is older. It began with the law that allowed every men to vote and the high class lost the power and Yrigoyen, the son of an immigrant, became the President.

Since then they refer to this new political class as "aluvion zoologico" (animals) among other insults. Those who were a little more classy called the new politicians the honorable unknown.

This aristocratswants to go back to the class society before the 1810 revolution. They want to go back to monarchy but they do not have a king, that is why they appointed dictatora and this is why they have so much hate because the immigrants (whoever with less than 200 years of pure argentine blood) pretend to be equals with them.