Shame on you Argentina

[kikedeolivos]

... It’s not impossible that the country will get so weak that one day they wake up to find that the Chinese have just landed five million troops, and are taking over. Well, something like this could happen, eventually, if the Argentines don’t wake up to just how decadent their country has become...

Funny thing you mentioned this: I've had recurrent nightmares while I lived in the US about the Chinese army taking over the US and going house by house arresting people. (thank God it was a nightmare)

 

[DA]

My own point of view, perhaps obviously, is that Argentina needs to scrap its punitive import taxes, scrap export taxes, scrap various other bizarre taxes such as the cheque tax, scrap non-financial barriers to trade, quit trying to fix prices of foodstuffs, encourage inward investment, encourage exports, .

Great point of View.

 

[kikedeolivos]

...Argentina needs to scrap its punitive import taxes, scrap export taxes, scrap various other bizarre taxes such as the cheque tax, scrap non-financial barriers to trade, quit trying to fix prices of foodstuffs, encourage inward investment, encourage exports, and just generally follow the kinds of policies that have worked in say, South Korea, or Japan, or Sweden, or just about anywhere normally functioning. What I’m basically saying is..just let people here buy what they want from where they can buy it at the best price, and let Argentine producers sell whatever they can where ever they want to, without any of the funny business. There’s no reason why this huge country replete with natural resources and its reasonably well educated but small population can’t be massively wealthy once again....

You nailed it my friend.

There was a very famous song (late 60's) from an Argentinian band. (Vox Dei) and, sometimes in the Chorus the words were:"...Todo tiene un final, todo termina..."

Nothing is forever, not even a Government.

 

[lbaron]

This thread is fascinating. Almost all posters blamed the S-word, Socialism, without directly using it for Argentina's downfall. You are correct. Protectionism is Socialism. Taxing the Rich to support the Poor is Socialism. America has a history of individual exceptionalism, which is the C-word, Capitalism. Friends, I am afraid Capitalism is finished in America. We have a new president who is loved in the world, yet is untrusted in his own nation because there is no question -- he is a Socialist. I am not optimistic about America, which is on a new path to Socialistic ruin. I am more optimistic about Argentina, because they know these policies have caused ruin.

 

[gusgutier]

For the last 60 years or so Argentina has followed the route of protection for its home industries, and it’s probably no coincidence that Argentina’s fall from economic grace happened concurrent to this policy. Most of the rest of the world has been moving steadily in the opposite direction, frexample Italy and Spain, once much poorer than Argentina, are now much richer, and this is almost certainly because of the liberalised trade policies followed by those two countries since joining the EU.
Misinformed. Argentina had free market policies during the following periods : from 1961 to 1964, from 1976 to 1983, and from 1989 to 1999. That´s to say, in the last 40 years, half of them has no potective policies. If you can see argentine evolution of GDP, the deepest decline happens in these last 40 years, after 1966 for a more accurate date.
It´s extensive to explain EU integration policies, but make sure that Italy and Spain didn´t grew cause to free market but due to access to hiper regulated europen market.

 

[ssr]

...Friends, I am afraid Capitalism is finished in America. We have a new president who is loved in the world, yet is untrusted in his own nation because there is no question -- he is a Socialist. I am not optimistic about America, which is on a new path to Socialistic ruin. I am more optimistic about Argentina, because they know these policies have caused ruin.

Hah! So nutty, Ibaron. But it's sort of nice that you addressed us as "Friends" before the tin-foil hat stuff.

 

[mariadourron]

Cool thread, I got tempted to add something!

Hasn't it just been proved that total liberalism simply doesn't work? isn't the whole world suffering a Horrible economical crisis which affects all the layers of society - ESPECIALLY IN POOR COUNTRIES?
I'm living in Holland right now, a very very very rich, supposedly liberal but actually quite socialist country, and the effects are hardly noticeable. Yes a bunch of banks went bankrupt, yes, real estate is frozen, but that's it. What did the huge liberal dutch companies like Phillips do? First started firing people in their locations outside of Holland, protecting their own. Here practically no one lost their jobs. The rich papa-state saved the day.
What happened to ultra liberal Iceland? What happened in Spain? What happened in the US?

I don't think Argentina could handle liberalism. We had our own liberalism-crisis in 2001, half of the people who weren't poor by then, got poor. We tried to believe that we could compete with the 'real markets', but that was all a fantasy we could not actually afford - because liberalism doesn't go well with poverty, or with lack of industry, or, or. etc.

We are poor country guys, it's every man for himself. We don't have a sense of 'the common good'. That's why there can't be progress. Everyone is trying to make sure they have food on the table tomorrow, not to invest on long lasting tools to actually grow as a country. You know what happens when Argentina tries to have a liberal market? everybody starts planting soja, and exhausting the only land we have for ever and ever, just so that they can get rich in 7 years. After that they don't need to plant anymore anyway. Or exporting all their beef, because they can get dollars for it, and the argentineans end up having to import Uruguayan meat for national consumption...

So, to wrap up, no, I don't think liberalism is what Argentina needs.
What does it need? That question would extend my already long post even longer, so I'll leave it for next time

 

[Matt84]

I am not optimistic about America, which is on a new path to Socialistic ruin. I am more optimistic about Argentina, because they know these policies have caused ruin.

Did I miss some good news? You know those policies cause ruin, I know it, most not all posters here know it, a handful of Argies know it, but... who else in this country does?

 

[Matt84]

What happened to ultra liberal Iceland?

Ultra Liberal Iceland got depopulated some 700 years ago, only to be re-settled by the Danes and Norges. I assume you are referring to the brief period in the middle ages when Iceland was a kind of Anarcho Capitalist society, because modern Iceland is the welfare state par excellence.

Here's Milton Friedman in Reykjavik correctly predicting this 30 years ago. Enjoy!

 

[orwellian]

This thread is fascinating. Almost all posters blamed the S-word, Socialism, without directly using it for Argentina's downfall. You are correct. Protectionism is Socialism. Taxing the Rich to support the Poor is Socialism. America has a history of individual exceptionalism, which is the C-word, Capitalism. Friends, I am afraid Capitalism is finished in America. We have a new president who is loved in the world, yet is untrusted in his own nation because there is no question -- he is a Socialist. I am not optimistic about America, which is on a new path to Socialistic ruin. I am more optimistic about Argentina, because they know these policies have caused ruin.

Wow, you managed to get all your statements wrong. I suggest you read about socialism before you voice your opinions. You make non-ignorant Americans look bad. And no, most posters here blames it on U.S imperialism, look that word up will you.

@steveinbsas
And you're included too.