Six Months After: Ba Vs. Madrid

[syngirl]

I really don't find a single country has escaped completely unscathed.

One word: Canada. Ok, maybe not completely unscathed, but expanding, even booming in a time when others were collapsing. Canada has been in an economic boom the past few years, we weren't reallly even affected. Our dollar has been on par or above USD for the past 5 years, it recently slipped to below par a few days ago and there was panic in the country, and only now are the banks getting worried about people taking on too much personal debt load. However, Alberta is still booming. They are desperate. Pipelines are already at capacity and they need to build more and now. My husband works in Oil & Gas. He has his Canadian permanent residency. Any logic would tell you this is the place we should go.

The people know are my friends here, or at least people I trust and respect and vice versa and don't start trying to give me a wake up call scare tactic by throwing prices at me in pesos about the horrors of childcare because I evidently must be that naive know better! If anything, they "get it" and can empathize better than people (locals or expats alike) who only recognize a Yanqui accent and presume that I'm in for a nasty shock one day because I evidently am enjoying a privileged lifestyle here that means I've been living here more than 4 years and haven't taken notice that Argentina in 2009 doesn't resemble Argentina in 2013.

Ok so Lauren, obviously I made the mistake of pissing off a pregnant woman on a hot day. And by your definition we could not be friends. Obviously you don't trust me.

A shame, because frankly you ARE me with a few years lag. American educated, Masters' degree holding North Americans with our Argentine husbands and our first borns. You live in a similar barrio, sounds like you have a similar lifestyle. And I'm sure our similarities do not end there somehow. But you know, forget all that because I dared talk about the prices in pesos of childcare.

I wasn't really posting anything to you as ADVICE. I was accounting my experience. Advice would have been This is how it is, this is what to do. The only advice I can really derive from my post that I gave to you was to start budgeting for your child's daycare now -- and you took offense to this. You took offense to someone giving you the head's up on the cost of daycare. Do you realise how ridiculous that seems? I too hated hearing the costs (especially back home) because I didn't really want to start thinking about that. But I didn't take offense when someone told me!

I told you what I was experiencing and told you that since having the baby and realising the forthcoming expenses on flights home are just a few months around the corner I've decided this is not the place for me and my family in the longterm.

Did I advise you to pack your bags and get on a plane? No. Did I advise you to get out. No.

All I said was that I too once viewed staying here as a choice, and now after having kids I've realised that what was once a personal choice for me alone has come to involve many other lives -- my child's, his grandparents, his aunts and uncles, his cousins -- here, in Canada, and in Spain where the other half of our Argentine family live. On a pesos income that means 2/3 of our family is becoming inaccessible.

Interpret what you will from my posts. I do have coming on 8 years here and usually experience counts for something. I'm not trying to offend, I'm just informing. A lot of people won't like that information, that's fine. But as you continue to say, you're posting your personal experience, while I am posting mine. So no need to get offended when I post that daycare is going to be an additional cost out of pocket*.

(*unless you are lucky enough to have grandparents on board with helping)

 

[syngirl]

I think you're taking syngirl's post way more personally and bitterly than was meant..at least from my reading. I read all your posts and enjoy them too for their humor and self-deprecation but that doesn't mean I remembered you were a teacher as most won't remember so I don't read her post as at all offensive..if anything she clearly expressed herself as jaded and was trying to share some info. So now we know from this post again - you're a teacher, a qualified 70kusd worth real teacher (not TEFL). Everyone got that???!!!!!!! Good..

Lol and yes, frankly I had forgotten -- if I ever knew -- that Lauren was a teacher, a proper one, not a TEFL cert...

 

[Vagrant Violet]

I think you're taking syngirl's post way more personally and bitterly than was meant..at least from my reading. I read all your posts and enjoy them too for their humor and self-deprecation but that doesn't mean I remembered you were a teacher as most won't remember so I don't read her post as at all offensive..if anything she clearly expressed herself as jaded and was trying to share some info. So now we know from this post again - you're a teacher, a qualified 70kusd worth real teacher (not TEFL). Everyone got that???!!!!!!! Good..

Personally? Yes. Excessively? Using one of my favorite lines, I can only speak for myself.

Info appreciated, but not particularly when I felt it was not even unsolicited advice about living here as an expat, but rather like I have no idea how drastically my life is going to do a 180 and all bets are off once I'm a mom.

"You say you are here out of choice, but a lot of this perspective is going to change when your child arrives." Well, that and throwing out numbers in pesos about childcare and education. It did rub me the wrong way, not going to lie. C'mon, this is BAExpats, and at least 50% of the neutral original topics wind up as some kind of personal ongoing beef between two strangers in a very public way. Maybe because something was misread the wrong way, or because she didn´t include a smiley face at the end. That´s how some wars in history seem to get started nowadays...

In any case, this was something I wanted to address because I DID feel a touch of personal offense. I didn't feel it had ANYTHING to do with my first response to the OP, praising Starlucia’s specific word choice for producing something better written than what you can find on Wikipedia and Lonely Planet, and wished her well on her endeavors. What the Hell happened???


So let´s agree to disagree and let bygones be bygones. Let’s not oversimplify, start throwing out figures and facts or words that we can´t take back that did not directly pertain to anything prior, or infer aspects about the other that are not directly stated. Let’s keep it about Starlucia’s well written and insightful post about her life in Madrid as was originally intended, okay?


And the amount of student debt that I racked up in USD is not relevant. It was used to explain an additional supporting detail that I was in a real jam back home, making everything a lot scarier for me. I'm proud of my degree because it's what I invested time and dedication to, whereas there are expats who might view it as a temporary gig or most common strategy for getting by for the time being. "Everyone got that???!!!!!!! Good.."

 

[Yogur griego]

Ok so Lauren, obviously I made the mistake of pissing off a pregnant woman on a hot day.

That made me laugh. But, what the heck, I am just one of these very typically uncomplicated male beings.

 

[Vagrant Violet]

One word: Canada. Ok, maybe not completely unscathed, but expanding, even booming in a time when others were collapsing. Canada has been in an economic boom the past few years, we weren't reallly even affected. Our dollar has been on par or above USD for the past 5 years, it recently slipped to below par a few days ago and there was panic in the country, and only now are the banks getting worried about people taking on too much personal debt load. However, Alberta is still booming. They are desperate. Pipelines are already at capacity and they need to build more and now. My husband works in Oil & Gas. He has his Canadian permanent residency. Any logic would tell you this is the place we should go.




Ok so Lauren, obviously I made the mistake of pissing off a pregnant woman on a hot day. And by your definition we could not be friends. Obviously you don't trust me.

A shame, because frankly you ARE me with a few years lag. American educated, Masters' degree holding North Americans with our Argentine husbands and our first borns. You live in a similar barrio, sounds like you have a similar lifestyle. And I'm sure our similarities do not end there somehow. But you know, forget all that because I dared talk about the prices in pesos of childcare.

I wasn't really posting anything to you as ADVICE. I was accounting my experience. Advice would have been This is how it is, this is what to do. The only advice I can really derive from my post that I gave to you was to start budgeting for your child's daycare now -- and you took offense to this. You took offense to someone giving you the head's up on the cost of daycare. Do you realise how ridiculous that seems? I too hated hearing the costs (especially back home) because I didn't really want to start thinking about that. But I didn't take offense when someone told me!

I told you what I was experiencing and told you that since having the baby and realising the forthcoming expenses on flights home are just a few months around the corner I've decided this is not the place for me and my family in the longterm.

Did I advise you to pack your bags and get on a plane? No. Did I advise you to get out. No.

All I said was that I too once viewed staying here as a choice, and now after having kids I've realised that what was once a personal choice for me alone has come to involve many other lives -- my child's, his grandparents, his aunts and uncles, his cousins -- here, in Canada, and in Spain where the other half of our Argentine family live. On a pesos income that means 2/3 of our family is becoming inaccessible.

Interpret what you will from my posts. I do have coming on 8 years here and usually experience counts for something. I'm not trying to offend, I'm just informing. A lot of people won't like that information, that's fine. But as you continue to say, you're posting your personal experience, while I am posting mine. So no need to get offended when I post that daycare is going to be an additional cost out of pocket*.

(*unless you are lucky enough to have grandparents on board with helping)

Fair enough. No permanent damage done. We cleared it up since we know what's what, and we know now we probably won't be Facebook friends.

For what it's worth, I respect your original intention of trying to share a personal insight that I honestly didn´t interpret that way at face value. Also your follow up about clarifying but not resorting to taking it further. That's cool. Starting the snide "LOL" comments like spectators in the peanut gallery is not.

So maybe I won´t "like" you in real life and on the forum, but I CAN tell you with no hint or sarcasm that I can still respect you after your follow up.

And you're right... A pregnant woman is not exactly the voice of reason. But I am not going to cling to my soap box al pedo, it's all good.

So guys... Don´t be passive aggressive with the LOLs and other random jabs. This is BA Expats, how can it not innocently go awry?

 

[PhilinBSAS]

Ireal teacher (not TEFL). Everyone got that???!!!!!!! Good..

Qualified and experienced TEFL teachers who have proper certificates e.g CELTA and not ones from Mickey Mouse Academy are "REAL TEACHERS" by any definition.

Have you got that??????!!!!! Good

 

[fifs2]

Qualified and experienced TEFL teachers who have proper certificates e.g CELTA and not ones from Mickey Mouse Academy are "REAL TEACHERS" by any definition.

Have you got that??????!!!!! Good

I was quoting lauren...don't shoot this messenger please...I've no teaching qualifications BUT I've taught at the University of Khartoum so IM a real teacher too..! h34r:

 

[ESPARG]

I've been lurking for months and decided to sign in after reading this very good post.

I live around 4 months a year in BsAs and the rest in Barcelona. I'm a Spaniard but my bf is Argentinean with Spanish passport. After 3 years, we have finally decided for him to move to Spain despite the economic crisis. I'm fortunate enough to be one of the few under 30 with a good job in Spain, and although my bf has a good job in BsAs, the quality of life we have while in Spain outweighs our BsAs time.

 

[Vagrant Violet]

I was quoting lauren...don't shoot this messenger please...I've no teaching qualifications BUT I've taught at the University of Khartoum so IM a real teacher too..! h34r:

"Qualified and experienced TEFL teachers who have proper certificates e.g CELTA and not ones from Mickey Mouse Academy are "REAL TEACHERS" by any definition."

Please scroll back a few and copy paste that. I must be losing it, no recollection of Micky Mouse Academy as far as I remember. By the way, I LIKE Micky Mouse, what does he have to do with all this?

No harm nor foul meant towards the member of the point where this all went horribly wrong (maybe it’s still kind of early in the morning, but I’ve scrolled back a few pages and I can’t even pinpoint the origin of the entire point of no return…. That’s how little personal resentment I feel towards that person (a female expat with a child, but that’s all I remember off hand) when I read a response in which I was quoted and felt rubbed the wrong way. I felt that her response to my post had nothing to do with Starlucia's. I got pissed and expressed it. We will never be Facebook friends, and that's still okay.

I can respect anyone's post here (and I´ve seen some real gems!) as long as we don't resort to the peanut gallery's LOLs about unrelated jabs. Not cool. (Personal note, as of 1998, I detest the use of LOL when there are so many other alternatives nowadays. It makes me think of my high school AOL IM days).

I can respect someone outright telling me that presenting myself as XYZ because of a previous statement that I wrote under my username not being passive aggressive and starting to bring in my vocation which I’m proud of and whatnot. That doesn’t make you clever or funny, it just makes you look like you’re going out of your way to be mean to someone who you don’t know about an issue that never pertained to you in the first place.

A pregnant woman is not the voice of reason, and yesterday WAS uncomfortably warm (and I was probably hungry), so let's just take it for what it was. I felt that it was an unnecessary response, and expressed that without resorting to 4 letter words or taking it to a personal level that wasn´t previously mentioned. If I ever feel like I’ve been in the wrong by a certain point, I know to get off my soapbox. I regret that at some point I misinterpreted something, but I don’t regret being forthright about it.
Let's agree to disagree, and let bygones be bygones. Let's not decide to join in on the disagreement and start tearing a poster whom you don´t know and have never previously had a beef with to shreds on a personal and totally unrelated level.

I still stand behind my original post where I did write to StarLucia:

"I wish you tons of luck in Spain, and I'd also be very eager to read an update if yours at some point, who knows what could happen? Very cool what you are doing, and even cooler giving us a viewpoint that you wouldn't see in Lonely Planet or on Wikipedia."

Well written post, and it sucks that somewhere along the line (intentionally or not) we kind of forgot that there was something about Madrid having more affordable and accessible travel opportunities but inferior ice cream.

 

[cuchona]

HI starlucia
hope you are enjoying MAdrid. I am argentinean but lived out of the country for 8 years. Now I'm back in BA and feel the same contraints than you were feeling here.In addition, I can not cope with the stupid arrogancy of argenitneans, From a taxi driver to the head of the company, everyone is "THE" best. I miss europe so much, educated people, tolerance, and those standards of first world that I became used to!
besos y mucha surte