Spanish-American Newcomer's Observations

[trennod]

I am confused, what has this got to do with security and safety?

In your article, 2nd and 3rd place is Singapore and Ireland. But as with any data, there are flaws. You will have to analyse this as a ratio of disposable income to really understand it. Otherwise, you are only ever going to find countries with high disposable incomes at the top.

Anyway, Australia is not concerned with gambling, as you can see from the tone of the article. But please enlighten me as to the attention it is getting in Australia, some information on the social problems it is causing (ie more than just we spend more in on gambling than any1 else), serious investment in social programs etc etc.

By the way, here is an analysis of GDP per capita. In case your not familiar, it is generally recognised as measuring the overall wealth of a country (per inhabitant).In the top 20, you will see you usual suspects: Switzerland, Norway, Finland, Australia, Singapore, Canada, USA, Belgium.

Do you want some stats on security? I cant really be bothered but happy to provide if you like

 

[trennod]

Trennod you have no arguments . The Australian Aborigines have a much lower life span and much worse health indicators than anyone who lives even in the worst slum of Buenos Aires . It is more dangerous being a indigenous person in Australia than being a slum dweller in Argentina

Australia's Aborigines have the worst life expectancy rates of any indigenous population in the world, a United Nations report has revealed.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=7&ved=0CG4QFjAG&url=http%3A%2F%2Ftvnz.co.nz%2Fworld-news%2Faborigine-life-expectancy-lowest-un-3330604&ei=KjQMUNLVMYXM9QS83vHLCg&usg=AFQjCNHcLA28JI74FyAmC1Mn8IDi9e59qw&sig2=fhINGKorLoVzlIUu8F2vdQ

Raymond, whats your beef with Australia? As I have said before, I am talking about safety and security in Buenos Aires?

Hell, being a New Zealander yourself, I thought like most others of your countrymen you would be a fan of Australia. It seems to be going okay with the number of New Zealanders (including your Indigenous population) that have moved and found jobs and a good life in Aust. There are thousands that have come across to work in the mines.

I like Buenos Aires, I love to bits my Argentina girlfriend, her family and friends and the porteño mates I have made here. Love the nightlife, love the weather, hell I even love the food and prefer my job here to the equivalent in Aust! Love the fùtbol (even though my gf has a heart attack every time I go, worried about what could happen). But the safety / insecurity, not so much. My girlfriend has been robbed / attempted robbed 3 times in the last 12 months she has spent in Buenos Aires / Tucuman, pretty much all of her friends, my friends and work colleagues have had incidents in the last year. Often, as you see on the news these turn in to murders. Also not keen on the government and constant political problems.

 

[Raymond]

Raymond, whats your beef with Australia? As I have said before, I am talking about safety and security in Buenos Aires?

Hell, being a New Zealander yourself, I thought like most others of your countrymen you would be a fan of Australia. It seems to be going okay with the number of New Zealanders (including your Indigenous population) that have moved and found jobs and a good life in Aust. There are thousands that have come across to work in the mines.

I like Buenos Aires, I love to bits my Argentina girlfriend, her family and friends and the porteño mates I have made here. Love the nightlife, love the weather, hell I even love the food and prefer my job here to the equivalent in Aust! Love the fùtbol (even though my gf has a heart attack every time I go, worried about what could happen). But the safety / insecurity, not so much. My girlfriend has been robbed / attempted robbed 3 times in the last 12 months she has spent in Buenos Aires / Tucuman, pretty much all of her friends, my friends and work colleagues have had incidents in the last year. Often, as you see on the news these turn in to murders. Also not keen on the government and constant political problems.

Gosh you Aussies are insecure !! The post you write above seems like a hysterical newspaper that reports every murder and robbery and reruns in over and over again on the newspapers and radio trying to prove that Argentina is more dangerous than it is .

Do you remember the massacres in Australia . Hoddle Street, Queen Street, Strathfield Massacre and one of the worst massacres ever recorded the Port Arthur Massacre . Now Australia is really safe

 

[trennod]

Gosh you Aussies are insecure !! The post you write above seems like a hysterical newspaper that reports every murder and robbery and reruns in over and over again on the newspapers and radio trying to prove that Argentina is more dangerous than it is .

Do you remember the massacres in Australia . Hoddle Street, Queen Street, Strathfield Massacre and one of the worst massacres ever recorded the Port Arthur Massacre . Now Australia is really safe

First bolded point - funny that, you seem to enjoy sensationalist media articles, seeing as you have linked about 3/4 in your recent 3 posts.

Second - Answering your question, no I only remember a couple seeing as I am 26 and either wasnt born or too young to remember all. You do realise your talking of a cpl that happened almost 30 years ago, haha nicee argument. So based on your logic, because of the "massacres" that occurred recently in USA and Norway, these countries would not be "really safe" either. What do you think? Norway less safe than Argentina.

Show me some facts to support your arguments that Argentina is safe, currently they appear uneducated and weak.

So far I have (that you have provided me with), Argentina is a safe country because:
- Kings Cross in Australia is a bad area:
- there are social problems with Indigenous Australians and Australians like to gamble
- there have been are a few massacres in Australia, of which a cpl happened over 30 years ago

 

[Raymond]

First bolded point - funny that, you seem to enjoy sensationalist media articles, seeing as you have linked about 3/4 in your recent 3 posts.

Second - Answering your question, no I only remember a couple seeing as I am 26 and either wasnt born or too young to remember all. You do realise your talking of a cpl that happened almost 30 years ago, haha nicee argument. So based on your logic, because of the "massacres" that occurred recently in USA and Norway, these countries would not be "really safe" either. What do you think? Norway less safe than Argentina.

Show me some facts to support your arguments that Argentina is safe, currently they appear uneducated and weak.

So far I have (that you have provided me with), Argentina is a safe country because:
- Kings Cross in Australia is a bad area:
- there are social problems with Indigenous Australians and Australians like to gamble
- there have been are a few massacres in Australia, of which a cpl happened over 30 years ago

You can dish it out mate but cannot take any heat . These are the points

1. Australias indigenous people have a lower life expectancy than Argentina
2. Australians lose or get stolen US $ 2000 a year from Legalised Robbery ( Gambling)
3. Australia has had more deaths of foreign tourists than Argentina . Heard of Ivan Milat and the Backpacker murderers
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Backpacker_Murders

There are many more cases of Backpackers being killed in Australia than Argentina .

4. Australians drink 3 times more per capita than Argentinians and bashings from drunk youth are more prevalent than in Argentina . These type of crimes are rare here but common in all Australian Cities

I can go on and on if you like

 

[Happy Camper]

After having read Trennod last few post's and as an Aussie I can say that he would be classed as a bit of a sissy in Oz. Something very disturbing to me is that one of the post's from Raymond(The Kiwi) I agreed with, it has never happened before in 37yrs.
Nuñez? They must have lot's of sheep around that area to keep you there Raymond

 

[Crema Americana]

I've never been to Australia, but I'd be very surprised if Australia is a more dangerous place than Argentina. Well, aside from crocodiles, dingos, and boxing kangaroos...

The US also has a serious binge drinking problem among its youth, but that doesn't affect how I feel while walking down the street. Gambling is a problem, but it's not exactly life threatening.

While the media does play up crime, that doesn't mean it's not happening. On a personal level, we all know people that have been mugged, robbed, scammed, etc... I even know a person that was shot during a robbery at my workplace. I also had a family member be a victim of a false kidnapping. Statistics are meaningless when your personal experiences (and your loved ones personal experiences) speak much stronger. I have more faith in that than cherry picked data.

 

[LostinBA]

Well, I finally did it and came down. Thus far, I must admit I am seriously loving it and wondered why the hell I stayed in Madrid (where I am originally from) for so long, and why I even bothered with making an attempt this January at living in over-priced, job-forsaken Chicago (where I studied, as I also hold US citizenship)

A few observations:

Why are ex-pat's hating on that it takes sooo much money to live here? I am living in Recoleta, in a nice shared flat and my rent is expensive by Argentine standards since I am charged in dollars(more on that later) but just about everything else seems pretty inexpensive to me from both a €uro and a USD perspective:

Dining out: I had a steak dinner for 2 at a very posh restaurant in Puerto Madero complete with a nice bottle of wine for the equivalent of about $70 USD. Back in the States, any ex-pat knows this will barely pay for 1 Ruth's Chris steak. Among other bargains, Benihana's daily lunch menu is 50 pesos complete with salad, soup, entree, drink, and dessert. I have never seen Benihana's so cheap anywhere in the world. Dining out definitely seems to be cheap, and to be honest I have yet to cook in the 2 weeks I have been here.

Going Out: Pretty comparable to the States or Europe, however I am told that this is because most bars/clubs target a wide international crowd and that this is why their prices reflect this, still though you definitely get a farrrrrrr farrrrrr more liberal pour on your drink than you would in the States on alcohol. Also, the bartenders here and PR people are a dime a dozen at handing out ¨free passes¨ or ¨free drink¨ invitations.

Clothing: While I have only window shopped, I find that MOST clothing and shoes, which are of non designer label, but still of high haberdashery ¨Brooks Brothers¨type quality, are a great value. There is a shop in Santa Fe in Recoleta that has nice, quality mens blazers for about 140 pesos and made in argentina dress leather footwear for around 200 pesos. I found this remarkable, really. However, yes, designer, import-label clothes are ridiculously expensive here.

Esthetics: A poshy poshy Vidal Sassoon like hair salon in Recoleta wanted 55 pesos to cut my hair. And, this is supposedly one of the top top places. I cant remember ever paying this except for maybe Great Clips in the USA. Hell, even the Spa at many top hotels like the Four Seasons here is quite cheap.

Groceries: Did them for the first time today in 2 weeks. Fresh food is very cheap. Frozen food was quite expensive (IE: frozen pizzas) at the Carrefour I went to. Anything imported which I could get in Europe as a daily staple is crazy expensive (Pelligrino sparkling water 42 pesos as opposed to 1,49 euro in Madrid)

Electronics: An insult! My charger to my MacBook Air blew out the first week and the ¨authorized Mac store¨ (there are many here) wanted 900 pesos for the standard Mac charger. Armed robbery!!! As god as my witness i will never buy electronics here! LOL

All this being said, the reason I am prob still in reverse culture shock is because yes, I am doing the math in dollars and euros, and yes, it would probably be different if I were earning in Argentine pesos, however most of my Argentine friends in their mid 20's early 30's are earning about 3,500-5,000 pesos and are also doing quite well, living alone or in shared flats, so who knows?
A friend of mine who is argentine but studied with me in USA told me that with about 10.000 pesos a month in income, a single person or even a couple with no kids could definitely live an upper middle class life here (2000 euros or about 2800 $) provided that all of your expenses are in pesos, and you dont waste any money unneccessarily on ridiculously priced items (IE: buying Iphones at argentine prices, imported designer clothes, etc)
Right now my mind is trying to be as argie as possible. I am paying about $600 USD for a room in a nice shared flat in Recoleta, all my Argentine friends think I am being shafted due to the fact that I am being treated like a foreigner. I am in the process of obtaining the visa rentista, but have no means of obtaining a garantia at the moment. Any way around this? Paying someone? LOL Please let me know, also please feel free to comment and contrast my observations.

How long are you staying because at 30% inflation a year, most prices will be equal or more than the USA soon and electronics...are you planning on having a first born to sell?

 

[genialf]

But, this is an expats forum and many expats are accustomed to a level of safety in first world countries such as Canada, USA, Australia (my first home), NZ and much of Europe. Argentina doesnt even come close to that level of safety. I understand there are worse countries (yes Mexico, parts of Central America, Uganda etc...you know Argentinas usual compatriots in crime and corruption), but please...you say you have lived here for 8 years...all the locals I know here are extremely security conscious, basically all have had some form of incident and it is widely regarded that insecurity is increasing. So please dont try and feed anything else to people on this forum.

I lived for 25 years in Mexico (17 of which in Mexico City) and nothing ever happened to me or my family. I've been here for 8 months and I've already been robbed once and heard horror stories from people I know. I certainly do not feel as safe here, but c'mon, it's a big city and big cities tend to have a lot more crime than quiet little towns. When going out just make sure you're aware of your surroundings ( and no, you can't walk up to a villa in the middle of the night wearing jewelry all over but you can't do that in the Bronx either).

Don't be fooled by the media about insecurity in my country. It's not like you end up in the middle of a cross Fire between drug cartels or against police forces every couple of days. Even in supposedly dangerous cities (Juarez, Monterrey, Nuevo Laredo) people live pretty normal lives. There are incidents, yes (not in Mexico City though), but media only shows this horrible scenes to sell papers or advertising spaces. Same goes for BA. What they show on TV isn't always the whole picture. When I got here they would talk for hours about missing children who would wind up dead a week later and murdered teachers and all that crap. It's bound to get you paranoid. As I said, I feel safer in Mexico City than in BA but maybe it's because I know Mexico City way better than I know Buenos Aires (fear of the unkown maybe).