Spanish-American Newcomer's Observations

[lamarque]

Lamarque what are those figures? (you mentioned it was a statistic per 100.000 inhabitants but didnt say what statistic). I am assuming its murder rates...

A couple of points:
- statistics coming from Argentina can never be believed. I wonder how and where the data was collated from an Arg point of view...
- IF this is only murder rates, you cant just conclude on safety based on that. What about other crimes. You would probably need some wider measures: armed robberys, theft, rape etc. For example, based on these figures your conclusion Lamarque would be, Argentina is pretty much as safe as the United States. I call bullsh*t.
- when are these figures from? It is widely believed crime has increased signicantly in the past cpl of years. In fact, just read an article in La Nacion (I think only a week or so ago) which mentioned the significant increase in attemped robberies that turned in to murder...
- look at the countries above Argentina: should we really be comparing ourselves with Honduras and Paraguay?
- still above Chile!

One last question, with who you want to compare Argentina? with Germany? with Finland? Argentina is a country in Latam and inside that region is one of the safest historically and continue now a days been, even when we all think it has been getting worst it still a safe country compared to the others in this region, I just want to put some real facts in the conversation because i have read people that recommend brasil or even i have hear of venezuela but the funny things was not that they recommend that country to some new commers, the fun thing was that they recommend them because they belive that they were more safer than here, they really hadn't been there if they really think that, Argentina is 5 times safer than Brazil and 10 times safer than Venezuela in stadistics but in fact i would say much more than that, So if you complain here i don't imagine if you go to live there, off course it could bee my really bad luck when i were there and my good luck here that why i go and search some real stadistics so i don't put bullshit based on my experience, i have live here for 8 years, is true that the last year and few month i was in Dublin but now i'm back here, i have been in lot of places around Argentina and South america and United State, so i have test diferent places quite a lot, yes it has become more expensive totally agree, hate the government totally get it, i hate it to but things should be said the way they are and not just because people is getting in bad mood.

 

[trennod]

One last question, with who you want to compare Argentina? with Germany? with Finland? Argentina is a country in Latam and inside that region is one of the safest historically and continue now a days been, even when we all think it has been getting worst it still a safe country compared to the others in this region, I just want to put some real facts in the conversation because i have read people that recommend brasil or even i have hear of venezuela but the funny things was not that they recommend that country to some new commers, the fun thing was that they recommend them because they belive that they were more safer than here, they really hadn't been there if they really think that, Argentina is 5 times safer than Brazil and 10 times safer than Venezuela in stadistics but in fact i would say much more than that, So if you complain here i don't imagine if you go to live there, off course it could bee my really bad luck when i were there and my good luck here that why i go and search some real stadistics so i don't put bullshit based on my experience, i have live here for 8 years, is true that the last year and few month i was in Dublin but now i'm back here, i have been in lot of places around Argentina and South america and United State, so i have test diferent places quite a lot, yes it has become more expensive totally agree, hate the government totally get it, i hate it to but things should be said the way they are and not just because people is getting in bad mood.

Fantastic, so basically on your analysis of amongst the 20 unsafest group of countries in the world (Latin America), Argentina sits in the safest quartet, just above one of the poorest countries in the world (Paraguay).

I have never heard anyone on this forum recommend Venezuela as a place to go. I have heard talk of Chile, Uruguay and Brazil, though.

Argentina is not safe (in particularly Capital Federal) and its getting worse, but yes you probably have more chance of getting murdered in Caracas, or Mexico City.

 

[syngirl]

I find the food prices in Argentina to be in line with US grocery prices from the Pacific Northwest. For example, in the US I can buy a small avocado from Chile for about US$1, same avocado in Argentina in Recoleta is about AR$8, in Peru a huge avocado 3 times the size of Chilean avocado is about Soles /1.5 less than 40 cents US.

You have to buy in season here. Avocado gets very expensive at certain times of year, along with lots of other products. When they are in season, prices drop. Also, Recoleta not a good reference for prices generally -- fruit/veg can be 2-3x as much as other barrios, even though it's all coming from the Mercado Central. Also, if you buy your fruit/veg in the supermarket instead of from a greengrocer you will pay a premium, despite it usually being of worse quality, with the occasional exception (ie the other week disco had some beautiful vine-ripened tomatoes, but my local woman had caqui, papaya, mango, arandanos -- though the arandanos were so expensive i'd rather buy a bag of frozen).

 

[lamarque]

Fantastic, so basically on your analysis of amongst the 20 unsafest group of countries in the world (Latin America), Argentina sits in the safest quartet, just above one of the poorest countries in the world (Paraguay).

I have never heard anyone on this forum recommend Venezuela as a place to go. I have heard talk of Chile, Uruguay and Brazil, though.

Argentina is not safe (in particularly Capital Federal) and its getting worse, but yes you probably have more chance of getting murdered in Caracas, or Mexico City.

Well you just say it by your self, people recommend Brazil a country where your life worst a penny, don't need to do any more talking to you. And i never told that Latam is not unsafe, but in murders per 100.000 k argentina 5.45 is in the same level as United State 5.01 so you can put Unite State In the group If you want to lol, In the other hand if we put Europe that is a very safe region specially Some North Countrys that has 0.9 like finland. Argentina is to finland what brazil is to argentina 5 times dangerous, simple math
So in other words recommend Brazil for security reasons is nonsense, is like if i'm in Finland and say people that Argentina Is safer wtf lol

 

[trennod]

Well you just say it by your self, people recommend Brazil a country where your life worst a penny, don't need to do any more talking to you. And i never told that Latam is not unsafe, but in murders per 100.000 k argentina 5.45 is in the same level as United State 5.01 so you can put Unite State In the group If you want to lol, In the other hand if we put Europe that is a very safe region specially Some North Countrys that has 0.9 like finland. Argentina is to finland what brazil is to argentina 5 times dangerous, simple math
So in other words recommend Brazil for security reasons is nonsense, is like if i'm in Finland and say people that Argentina Is safer wtf lol

But, I dont understand your point. Is it that Argentina is a safe country, or is it that Brazil is safer than Argentina? Or is it that Argentina is "better" than Brazil. What exactly are you trying to say?

People recommend Brazil (from what some have said on this forum), because it is better value for money than Argentina, the service is better, the people are friendlier, the food is fresher and there is more selection, it has more freedoms, it has nice beaches etc. People also say they feel no less safe their than Argentina. But I have never heard anyone imply that Brazil is as safe as a first world country.

You mentioned before Venezuela has been recommended here or people say it is safe? Either that was an error, or I think you are lying; I have never seen that said on this forum.

My only point is that this data does not prove conclusively regarding safety. If it did, we could all agree based on these numbers Argentina is about as safe as the USA (which despite what we saw this week, we know that is bullsh*t). It proves you may be less likely to be killed in Argentina than most of Central America, and yes Brazil. It doesnt suggest anything about being robbed, raped etc. Safety is not just measured in terms of murder rates.

I understand your agenda in your posts, you go in to bat for Argentina and you like to believe it is a safe country (or its not that unsafe). I like Argentina, the love of my life is Argentine. It is a country with many great things.

But, this is an expats forum and many expats are accustomed to a level of safety in first world countries such as Canada, USA, Australia (my first home), NZ and much of Europe. Argentina doesnt even come close to that level of safety. I understand there are worse countries (yes Mexico, parts of Central America, Uganda etc...you know Argentinas usual compatriots in crime and corruption), but please...you say you have lived here for 8 years...all the locals I know here are extremely security conscious, basically all have had some form of incident and it is widely regarded that insecurity is increasing. So please dont try and feed anything else to people on this forum.

 

[lamarque]

But, I dont understand your point. Is it that Argentina is a safe country, or is it that Brazil is safer than Argentina? Or is it that Argentina is "better" than Brazil. What exactly are you trying to say?

People recommend Brazil (from what some have said on this forum), because it is better value for money than Argentina, the service is better, the people are friendlier, the food is fresher and there is more selection, it has more freedoms, it has nice beaches etc. People also say they feel no less safe their than Argentina. But I have never heard anyone imply that Brazil is as safe as a first world country.

You mentioned before Venezuela has been recommended here or people say it is safe? Either that was an error, or I think you are lying; I have never seen that said on this forum.

My only point is that this data does not prove conclusively regarding safety. If it did, we could all agree based on these numbers Argentina is about as safe as the USA (which despite what we saw this week, we know that is bullsh*t). It proves you may be less likely to be killed in Argentina than most of Central America, and yes Brazil. It doesnt suggest anything about being robbed, raped etc. Safety is not just measured in terms of murder rates.

I understand your agenda in your posts, you go in to bat for Argentina and you like to believe it is a safe country (or its not that unsafe). I like Argentina, the love of my life is Argentine. It is a country with many great things.

But, this is an expats forum and many expats are accustomed to a level of safety in first world countries such as Canada, USA, Australia (my first home), NZ and much of Europe. Argentina doesnt even come close to that level of safety. I understand there are worse countries (yes Mexico, parts of Central America, Uganda etc...you know Argentinas usual compatriots in crime and corruption), but please...you say you have lived here for 8 years...all the locals I know here are extremely security conscious, basically all have had some form of incident and it is widely regarded that insecurity is increasing. So please dont try and feed anything else to people on this forum.

Ok aparently my point is not clear, i will clarify it to you, if people recomend countrys because of some reason in this case security the ones that recommend should know what they talk about, you cannot tell a person that don't have an idea about Latin America that is more safe Brazil, or Paraguay or what ever, it would be ok to segust chile in that sense. So my point is make some research or travel more around before recomend bulshit. I hope i have been clear enought now.
Second thing is security consiusness is not related to criminal rate, is more related to criminal sensation that population mainly take from the media, if newspaper put all the crimes in 10 pages all the days dosn't matter how secure or insecure a country is the people will feel the crime is rising if the media stop showing this news people will just thing that criminal rate is getting lower.

 

[Raymond]

But, I dont understand your point. Is it that Argentina is a safe country, or is it that Brazil is safer than Argentina? Or is it that Argentina is "better" than Brazil. What exactly are you trying to say?

People recommend Brazil (from what some have said on this forum), because it is better value for money than Argentina, the service is better, the people are friendlier, the food is fresher and there is more selection, it has more freedoms, it has nice beaches etc. People also say they feel no less safe their than Argentina. But I have never heard anyone imply that Brazil is as safe as a first world country.

You mentioned before Venezuela has been recommended here or people say it is safe? Either that was an error, or I think you are lying; I have never seen that said on this forum.

My only point is that this data does not prove conclusively regarding safety. If it did, we could all agree based on these numbers Argentina is about as safe as the USA (which despite what we saw this week, we know that is bullsh*t). It proves you may be less likely to be killed in Argentina than most of Central America, and yes Brazil. It doesnt suggest anything about being robbed, raped etc. Safety is not just measured in terms of murder rates.

I understand your agenda in your posts, you go in to bat for Argentina and you like to believe it is a safe country (or its not that unsafe). I like Argentina, the love of my life is Argentine. It is a country with many great things.

But, this is an expats forum and many expats are accustomed to a level of safety in first world countries such as Canada, USA, Australia (my first home), NZ and much of Europe. Argentina doesnt even come close to that level of safety. I understand there are worse countries (yes Mexico, parts of Central America, Uganda etc...you know Argentinas usual compatriots in crime and corruption), but please...you say you have lived here for 8 years...all the locals I know here are extremely security conscious, basically all have had some form of incident and it is widely regarded that insecurity is increasing. So please dont try and feed anything else to people on this forum.

You make Australia sound like a paradise but it far from that with terrible social problems that make Argentina seem more civilised . Have you been to the Rocks late on Saturday Night or Kings Cross or Redfern . These areas are more dangerous than most areas of Buenos Aires . Drunk youth bashing strangers , people completely wiped out on drugs and Aborigines sleeping on the pavement this is the reality for many there . The indigeneous people of Australia have a mortality rate higher than even Africa !! Also Australia is the gambling capital of the world and this causes more social problems that are too numerous to mention here.

 

[trennod]

You make Australia sound like a paradise but it far from that with terrible social problems that make Argentina seem more civilised . Have you been to the Rocks late on Saturday Night or Kings Cross or Redfern . These areas are more dangerous than most areas of Buenos Aires . Drunk youth bashing strangers , people completely wiped out on drugs and Aborigines sleeping on the pavement this is the reality for many there . The indigeneous people of Australia have a mortality rate higher than even Africa !! Also Australia is the gambling capital of the world and this causes more social problems that are too numerous to mention here.

For one, I was just grouping Australia in with first world countries. I am not sure I made it sound like a paradise? I am talking about SECURITY and SAFETY. Haha, nice one.

But seeing as you mentioned it, of course there are social problems, every country has social problems. Just like every city has its particularly dangerous areas! Keen to set foot in one of the Villas here on a Saturday night? Do you reckon you would fare better than Kings Cross. These areas you mentioned, yes they are seedly areas. Its why most people stay clear.

The gambling capital of the world? Geez we really are scraping the barrel. Any other figures to add to your argument? Did you know Singapore are 2nd in this fabulour statistic? Also a very unsafe country.

Comparing safety in Buenos Aires that that of, well Sydney or Melbourne is just silly, Raymond.

Whats the chances of your supposedly high rise apartment being infiltrated and robbed while your in it (see Yanqui eg), in Australia or any of the other countries I mentioned? Thats not a one off either, that happens ALL the time here.

My point is, Buenos Aires and Argentina are NOT as safe as first world countries. Raymond do you disagree?

 

[Raymond]

Hypocrisy is a trait of many people Trennod . Third world is a term used by insecure people to make out that their country is superior and has a better social system when the reality is gl;aringly obvious .

Australia has 20% of the worlds poker machines and Australians gamble more per capita than any other people in the world . Every Australian loses US $ 2,000 per year from legalised gambling ( legalised robbery)

Gambling affects more people and destroys more families than pickpockets in Buenos Aires .

http://www.smh.com.au/national/its-...ead-in-the-gambling-world-20110520-1ewls.html

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...tyYqqRiyV0h_mi7Vg&sig2=xUCE-7sb54SCofcQen7f1g

 

[Raymond]

Trennod you have no arguments . The Australian Aborigines have a much lower life span and much worse health indicators than anyone who lives even in the worst slum of Buenos Aires . It is more dangerous being a indigenous person in Australia than being a slum dweller in Argentina

Australia's Aborigines have the worst life expectancy rates of any indigenous population in the world, a United Nations report has revealed.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=7&ved=0CG4QFjAG&url=http%3A%2F%2Ftvnz.co.nz%2Fworld-news%2Faborigine-life-expectancy-lowest-un-3330604&ei=KjQMUNLVMYXM9QS83vHLCg&usg=AFQjCNHcLA28JI74FyAmC1Mn8IDi9e59qw&sig2=fhINGKorLoVzlIUu8F2vdQ