SUBE Card - Transit More Expensive for Expats?

[Magoya]

The Argentine reality is very unique, rather distorted

If you wanna buy MetroCard in New York or Oyster in London, the price is the same for everyone. Actually, it's anonymous. They really don't know if you are from New Jersey / Essex or the other part of globe. Discounted and free fares are entirely different category

Well, those are different countries.Check for instance, public health services. Argentina is a totally different place to the US and the UK, if you didn't notice by now. And we are not just talking about first world/third world issues here.

Even though I'd prefer the anonymous option too (I'm still using Monedero instead of Subte and I'm going to stay that way), it makes sense if they want to give differentiated fares for those in need according to income (which makes sense if it was properly implemented, which I can bet it won't, but its still too soon to tell). I'm ready to pay unsubsidized fare (I doubt I'll get any discount if they see I'm employed). Probably the lower bracket of income will be the ones getting discounts (unemployed, or employed only with minimal salary or something like that).

I just want less double pricing

Don't think that's going to happen soon. Different reality.

Expats are taxed here on everything they consume and they increase consumption as well as the cash volume by bringing in hard currency

Everyone here is taxed on what they consume. Those with a salary of 1500 pesos a month and the managers of a multinational company with 150000 a month, and they both pay the same amount of tax on food items for instance. So expats are not special on that.

Now, on the rest of the taxes.... just not the same (unless you are resident, I guess). You can't expect the same benefits.

 

[GuilleGee]

Discounted and free fares are the help I'm talking about. You are contradicting yourself in the same paragraph.
Most of the locals (working and with income) will be paying full fare. And if we do get some kind of a break vs non-residents, I feel its totally justified, as we do pay local taxes while the rest don't.

Dont be stupid. Anyone who lives here and purchases the daily necessities is paying taxes (via IVA as well as supporting the local businesses who pay IIBB & the rest of the fun taxes).

 

[Magoya]

Dont be stupid. Anyone who lives here and purchases the daily necessities is paying taxes (via IVA as well as supporting the local businesses who pay IIBB & the rest of the fun taxes).

Well, that was totally uncalled for. And ignorant to boot.
Everyone living here would be paying IVA at most (VAT). That's far from being the only tax residents and citizens have to pay. Non residents are NOT on equal footing and shouldn't expect the same benefits. You are lucky already that you are not treated in the same way your countries of origin treat people from abroad trying to make a living there.

 

[sesamosinsal]

I've also heard that this massive uptake of the sube is, in effect, giving the govt a loan of (potentially) millions to play with.
Its just not sitting well with me at all.

Ah, looks like we've been reading Clarin.

Clarin says that SUBE was created in order to end the coins nightmare that everyone here lived in 2008 and 2009. But that is not the only reason.

What Clarín fails to mention in that article is that the government anticipates preventing the theft of nearly $2 billion ARS -- that's $450 million USD -- per year. Previously, transportation companies were provided subsidies based on a sworn declaration. In other words, Metrovías and the companies that run the buses simply told the government how many passengers they serviced last month, and the government handed out the subsidies, no questions asked.

So yes, SUBE does create a "caja" of millions of pesos, but it doesn't even compare to the money that public transportation companies stole year-after-year from another caja.

I am very critical of this government and others, but in my opinion, the CFK administration should be praised for this initiative.

 

[sesamosinsal]

I've also heard that this massive uptake of the sube is, in effect, giving the govt a loan of (potentially) millions to play with.
Its just not sitting well with me at all.

Ah, looks like we've been reading Clarín.

Clarin says that SUBE was created in order to end the coins nightmare that everyone here lived in 2008 and 2009. But that is not the only reason.

What Clarín fails to mention in that article is that the government anticipates preventing the theft of nearly $2 billion ARS -- that's $450 million USD -- per year. Previously, transportation companies were provided subsidies based on a sworn declaration. In other words, Metrovías and the companies that run the buses simply told the government how many passengers they serviced last month, and the government handed out the subsidies, no questions asked.

So yes, SUBE does create a "caja" of millions of pesos, but it doesn't even compare to the money that the government will save.

I am very critical of this government and others, but in my opinion, the CFK administration should be praised for this initiative.

 

[Ashley]

Ah, looks like we've been reading Clarín.

Clarin says that SUBE was created in order to end the coins nightmare that everyone here lived in 2008 and 2009. But that is not the only reason.

What Clarín fails to mention in that article is that the government anticipates preventing the theft of nearly $2 billion ARS -- that's $450 million USD -- per year. Previously, transportation companies were provided subsidies based on a sworn declaration. In other words, Metrovías and the companies that run the buses simply told the government how many passengers they serviced last month, and the government handed out the subsidies, no questions asked.

So yes, SUBE does create a "caja" of millions of pesos, but it doesn't even compare to the money that the government will save.

I am very critical of this government and others, but in my opinion, the CFK administration should be praised for this initiative.

Well, if that were the case, they could simply take numbers at the subte turnstiles/money machines in buses to find out how many people are actually using the service, rather than trusting the transport authorities...but they're not. As it stands it just seems shifty, especially given how we're being left in the dark about what the prices are going to be and exactly how the new system will work (my opinion, not clarin's!).

 

[GuilleGee]

Well, that was totally uncalled for. And ignorant to boot.
Everyone living here would be paying IVA at most (VAT). That's far from being the only tax residents and citizens have to pay. Non residents are NOT on equal footing and shouldn't expect the same benefits. You are lucky already that you are not treated in the same way your countries of origin treat people from abroad trying to make a living there.

I think your post is ignorant. I would argue that most foreigners who live here and use the bus are paying the exact same amount of taxes as natives. I never said I was against a non-subsidized fare for tourists/visitors, just pointed out that your argument of non-residents living here not paying taxes was stupid.

 

[Magoya]

I think your post is ignorant. I would argue that most foreigners who live here and use the bus are paying the exact same amount of taxes as natives. I never said I was against a non-subsidized fare for tourists/visitors, just pointed out that your argument of non-residents living here not paying taxes was stupid.

Well, you are not only rude but also ignorant. Non residents pay a low fraction of the total taxes that citizens and residents have to pay. I'd say you should research better before insulting someone.

 

[Kettle]

[Come on, please attack the argument, not the person. Calling people stupid or ignorant is counterproductive and makes these forums painful to read or engage in. Seriously.]

 

[GuilleGee]

Kettle, I apologize if my post came across as a personal attack. Stupid is being used as an adjective for the argument of Magoya, no more, no less.

Magoya, please inform me what these higher fraction of taxes are... As a non-resident living in Argentina I payed the same taxes as I now pay as a resident.

The only change I have experienced is that as a now employed resident - my employer pays taxes on my income.

Again Mogoya, I am not saying that there should or should not be differentiated rates on the bus. I am pointing out that your argument that non-residents should pay higher rates because they do not pay the same amount of taxes, is stupid.

I wonder if anyone could find a graph that specifies the percentage of government income from IVA versus other sources?