SUBE Card - Transit More Expensive for Expats?

[sesamosinsal]

I wonder if anyone could find a graph that specifies the percentage of government income from IVA versus other sources?

From 2006... Probably hasn't changed too much?

 

[Magoya]

Magoya, please inform me what these higher fraction of taxes are... As a non-resident living in Argentina I payed the same taxes as I now pay as a resident.
The only change I have experienced is that as a now employed resident - my employer pays taxes on my income.

You have income taxes...you have property taxes... you have taxes at province level and even some at local level. There are a bunch of taxes here, the fact that you know nothing about them, doesn't make them disappear.

That income tax you get discounted from your salary, is only a part of what you are responsible for. You should hire an accountant soon if you don't want problems. You might find a nice surprise soon. Those are part of your responsibilities, and not your employer's.

You are equating residents and citizens to visitors. They don't have the same obligations, they are not responsible for the same taxes, and they are not entitled to the same benefits.

Again Mogoya, I am not saying that there should or should not be differentiated rates on the bus. I am pointing out that your argument that non-residents should pay higher rates because they do not pay the same amount of taxes, is stupid.

Well, that's what you think. I think the same of your argument that just because someone pays IVA as a tourist they should be entitled to the same benefits as the residents and citizens

I bet you also feel tourists are entitled to unemployment subsidies.

 

[sesamosinsal]

According to Clarín in May 2011:

The national tax structure (without considering contributions to social security) is made up of mostly (72 percent) indirect taxes, such as VAT, bank checks, fuel, and others. The remaining 28 percent consists of direct taxes, such as earnings, personal effects, property transfers, and others.

http://www.ieco.clarin.com/economia/presion-tributaria-argentina-America-Latina_0_481152123.html

 

[dennisr]

So if you are on a tourist visa, your fare might be say 3 times higher than a local. What do you think?
JM

It is a bargain. Two f... dollars to go anywhere in the city.

 

[GuilleGee]

Thanks BradyHale for the graphic, I think it points out that just someone living here, even if not legal, pays in a good amount to the system through IVA as someone who is a resident.

Magoya, I dont think you are thoroughly reading my post. I am not saying visitors or tourists are entitled to pay the same price as residents, but rather that people living here in an irregular immigrant status should pay the same as residents.

 

[Magoya]

Thanks BradyHale for the graphic, I think it points out that just someone living here, even if not legal, pays in a good amount to the system through IVA as someone who is a resident.

But not close to the same to the ones living "en blanco".

Magoya, I dont think you are thoroughly reading my post. I am not saying visitors or tourists are entitled to pay the same price as residents, but rather that people living here in an irregular immigrant status should pay the same as residents.

Well, I don't agree to that neither. Irregular immigrant status includes both people that need to come over to find work (like immigrant from adjacent countries ) that should, and rich people traveling the world for pleasure that decide to stay in Buenos Aires as permatourists and not pay any taxes, or people working online for the US or EU and earning US salaries while using the cheap/free infrastructure here without paying taxes either.

I'd even extend to say that I'd be fine for the first of those groups to get discounts (if there's a way to verify those claims), but no way the rest deserves it, just because they are cheap and don't want to spend 1 dollar to be taken all across town.

 

[scotttswan]

Can the SUBE be linked up to a credit card for automatic recharging like monedero can?

 

[GuilleGee]

No Scott, at the moment there is no way to recharge the SUBE other than going to a charge point and paying cash. One of the problems with the system that I believe will have to be worked out quickly after (semi) obligatory implementation.

Magoya, I am done arguing with you. As the graph from Brady Hale clarifies, income (& other direct) taxes are a very low percentage of the income used to fund transportation subsidies, and the majority comes from indirect taxes that people who are outside the system pay anyways, punto. I am comfortable with my point, and I believe it is easily understood by rational beings.

Saludos

 

[KatharineAnn]

Irregular immigrant status includes both people that need to come over to find work (like immigrant from adjacent countries ) that should, and rich people traveling the world for pleasure that decide to stay in Buenos Aires as permatourists and not pay any taxes, or people working online for the US or EU and earning US salaries while using the cheap/free infrastructure here without paying taxes either.

Please don't assume that most irregular status foreigners don't actually WISH to be on the radar and included in the system. Trust me, if I could have gotten my residency/DNI years earlier (AND PAID TAXES) I would have gladly done so...I doubt I am the only one who feels this way.

 

[Ashley]

Please don't assume that most irregular status foreigners don't actually WISH to be on the radar and included in the system. Trust me, if I could have gotten my residency/DNI years earlier (AND PAID TAXES) I would have gladly done so...I doubt I am the only one who feels this way.

I agree. There are plenty of people living here, working here (for Argentine employers) that cannot get a permanent or work visa through no fault of their own. They don't pay their 200/300 peso monotributo (because they can't) but they spend all their earnings here and are probably paying higher rents, etc. because they don't have garantias and are forced into temporary solutions. Unfortunately, there is no differentiating this kind of person from actual regular tourists here for pleasure, so they'll probably be penalized if such policy comes into force.

Disturbingly, I was talking to a sube rep at Lacroze today who said that the benefit of the sube would be that the holder wouldn't be subjected to the price hikes... AT FIRST! While implies that we will later on!