The Best Reason Now To Be An Expat In Argentina...

[ajoknoblauch]

Frenchie, I like a lot of what you are saying here. But I do want to make a comment about "socialized" vs communism or even fascism.

To you Europeans, socialized medicine and many other services seems like something you all pretty much decided on together. I have no beef with that at all, and there are some pros and cons, without a doubt. I do not think that your medical system is the reason you live longer than Americans, but as you pointed out is probably related more to sedentary vs active lifestyles, obesity, etc. Possibly even down to more natural food products vs more engineered products (though I'm not an opponent to engineered food, simply because the world cannot possibly feed itself off of naturally-grown food. However, even corn [as an example], in its natural state, isn't terribly healthy for humans because we didn't evolve eating it - came in the agricultural revolution later).


I don't want to debate the benefits of socialism vs capitalism, that's not what's important to me and I don't think is the point.

Socialism is absolutely fine as a political system when that is what the people want. In the US, socalism is becoming more fashionable because people want less responsibility and the government is giving it to them to keep those in power where they feel they belong. I've gone from times when people were relatively happy and very much 100% capitalism (when I was young) to times when people feel that everyone else has a responsibility to see to their happiness.

When something like the abomination that Obama put out there comes around, it is forcing more socialism on a country that doesn't necessarily embrace it because people really believe in helping out their fellow man, but rather lick their lips in anticipation of what they will get "for free." And the majority of people in the US don't want socialized medince - they just want the system fixed and were hoping against hope that Obama had the right idea with his proposals.

I see a difference between forced socialism (no better than a Red revolution) and a society as a whole deciding that that is what they want.

BTW - I liked being a middle-class American as related to getting healthcare. I didn't like how much I had to pay for insurance, but then I didn't have to pay for insurance to go see a doctor for a runny nose either, so I bought a "catastrophic" policy to pay for big things (which even included broken bones). The policy had a large deductible, but $5000 isn't going to send anyone to the poor house (as a middle-class American), and most institutions had payment plans to cover expenses not covered by insurance.

At least in Houston and Austin in Texas, we had hundreds of cheap clinics where you could go see a doctor to get antibiotics (if you needed them, as an example). I didn't need a huge policy to pay for my medication - generic brand medicines were so much cheaper than brand-name medicines and did just as well. There is not that much of a problem for non-serious issues in the States as there is for on-going, long-term procedures, surgeries and some preventive medicine. In my opinion.

And, of course, that homey little neighborhood clinic would have been delighted to provide you a low-cost quadruple bypass.

 

[ajoknoblauch]

Frenchie, I like a lot of what you are saying here. But I do want to make a comment about "socialized" vs communism or even fascism.

To you Europeans, socialized medicine and many other services seems like something you all pretty much decided on together. I have no beef with that at all, and there are some pros and cons, without a doubt. I do not think that your medical system is the reason you live longer than Americans, but as you pointed out is probably related more to sedentary vs active lifestyles, obesity, etc. Possibly even down to more natural food products vs more engineered products (though I'm not an opponent to engineered food, simply because the world cannot possibly feed itself off of naturally-grown food. However, even corn [as an example], in its natural state, isn't terribly healthy for humans because we didn't evolve eating it - came in the agricultural revolution later).

I don't want to debate the benefits of socialism vs capitalism, that's not what's important to me and I don't think is the point.

Socialism is absolutely fine as a political system when that is what the people want. In the US, socalism is becoming more fashionable because people want less responsibility and the government is giving it to them to keep those in power where they feel they belong. I've gone from times when people were relatively happy and very much 100% capitalism (when I was young) to times when people feel that everyone else has a responsibility to see to their happiness.

When something like the abomination that Obama put out there comes around, it is forcing more socialism on a country that doesn't necessarily embrace it because people really believe in helping out their fellow man, but rather lick their lips in anticipation of what they will get "for free." And the majority of people in the US don't want socialized medince - they just want the system fixed and were hoping against hope that Obama had the right idea with his proposals.

I see a difference between forced socialism (no better than a Red revolution) and a society as a whole deciding that that is what they want.

BTW - I liked being a middle-class American as related to getting healthcare. I didn't like how much I had to pay for insurance, but then I didn't have to pay for insurance to go see a doctor for a runny nose either, so I bought a "catastrophic" policy to pay for big things (which even included broken bones). The policy had a large deductible, but $5000 isn't going to send anyone to the poor house (as a middle-class American), and most institutions had payment plans to cover expenses not covered by insurance.

At least in Houston and Austin in Texas, we had hundreds of cheap clinics where you could go see a doctor to get antibiotics (if you needed them, as an example). I didn't need a huge policy to pay for my medication - generic brand medicines were so much cheaper than brand-name medicines and did just as well. There is not that much of a problem for non-serious issues in the States as there is for on-going, long-term procedures, surgeries and some preventive medicine. In my opinion.

Frenchie, I like a lot of what you are saying here. But I do want to make a comment about "socialized" vs communism or even fascism.

To you Europeans, socialized medicine and many other services seems like something you all pretty much decided on together. I have no beef with that at all, and there are some pros and cons, without a doubt. I do not think that your medical system is the reason you live longer than Americans, but as you pointed out is probably related more to sedentary vs active lifestyles, obesity, etc. Possibly even down to more natural food products vs more engineered products (though I'm not an opponent to engineered food, simply because the world cannot possibly feed itself off of naturally-grown food. However, even corn [as an example], in its natural state, isn't terribly healthy for humans because we didn't evolve eating it - came in the agricultural revolution later).

I don't want to debate the benefits of socialism vs capitalism, that's not what's important to me and I don't think is the point.

Socialism is absolutely fine as a political system when that is what the people want. In the US, socalism is becoming more fashionable because people want less responsibility and the government is giving it to them to keep those in power where they feel they belong. I've gone from times when people were relatively happy and very much 100% capitalism (when I was young) to times when people feel that everyone else has a responsibility to see to their happiness.

When something like the abomination that Obama put out there comes around, it is forcing more socialism on a country that doesn't necessarily embrace it because people really believe in helping out their fellow man, but rather lick their lips in anticipation of what they will get "for free." And the majority of people in the US don't want socialized medince - they just want the system fixed and were hoping against hope that Obama had the right idea with his proposals.

I see a difference between forced socialism (no better than a Red revolution) and a society as a whole deciding that that is what they want.

BTW - I liked being a middle-class American as related to getting healthcare. I didn't like how much I had to pay for insurance, but then I didn't have to pay for insurance to go see a doctor for a runny nose either, so I bought a "catastrophic" policy to pay for big things (which even included broken bones). The policy had a large deductible, but $5000 isn't going to send anyone to the poor house (as a middle-class American), and most institutions had payment plans to cover expenses not covered by insurance.

At least in Houston and Austin in Texas, we had hundreds of cheap clinics where you could go see a doctor to get antibiotics (if you needed them, as an example). I didn't need a huge policy to pay for my medication - generic brand medicines were so much cheaper than brand-name medicines and did just as well. There is not that much of a problem for non-serious issues in the States as there is for on-going, long-term procedures, surgeries and some preventive medicine. In my opinion.

Socalism? What does LA have to do with this?

 

[ElQueso]

And, of course, that homey little neighborhood clinic would have been delighted to provide you a low-cost quadruple bypass.

Huh?

Edit: Maybe I should expound on my "huh?"

I know I write a lot, but maybe you missed the part where I mentioned I had catastrophic insurance coverage (and elsewhere mentioned that it was a $1M limit) that actually, yes, would have indeed covered a quadruple bypass, if I ever needed it (I'm a pretty healthy guy for a 51-year-old and have been athletic all my life). It would also have covered cancer treatments, even AIDS (which also has never been something for which I was at very high risk.) and many other things.

So are you ragging on something that I (and many others, I can guarantee you) used to combat high health insurance costs? (i.e., instead of whining about the government not providing for us). Are you thinking that that clinic was "homey" (not my words, nor in my description at all) because I lived in an upper-middle-class neighborhood and therefore is worth derision? (the clinic was not near my neighborhood, but about 4 miles away and easily accessible by pretty much everyone - in fact it was used primarily by Latinos from working-class neighborhoods - it was much closer to my first house which was very much a working class neighborhood).

I don't mind anyone questioning my beliefs, but smart-ass comments that don't emit anything based on reality (in this case what was actually written) - man, I've got enough of that from the news, watching our supposed political process.

 

[ElQueso]

Socalism? What does LA have to do with this?

Huh? Where did I mention "LA"? Not sure what you mean.

 

[StevePalermo]

A prize to the first person identifying the author of this "[font=Helvetica Neue']“I get very tired of the carping of our Republican friends who have completely forever ignored the health care crisis in the country, 48 million uninsured, we as a nation are the only country in the industrialized world not to guarantee health care, 45,000 people die each year because they don’t get to a doctor on time and at the end of all that we end up spending almost twice as much as any other country for health care." [/font][font=Helvetica Neue'] [/font]

And they call Obama a socialist/communist/muslim/tyrant for trying to do something about it. I've asked steveinbsas a couple of times about his definition of socialism/communism but he hasn't responded. I know a few genuine card carrying communists and they always laugh when they see him described thus. They think he's a puppet of Wall Street and big business. Can he be both?

 

[internationalguy]

[background=rgb(252, 252, 252)]And they call Obama a socialist/communist/muslim/tyrant for trying to do something about it. [/background]


[background=rgb(252, 252, 252)]Well, that's my main problem. He's PRETENDING to do something about it. When he had both the HOUSE and the SENATE to himself, when he forced this piece of horrible legislation through his democratic controlled Congress, he could have done something real about it. Obamacare is just about control and really does very little for the American people. It might be helping some of the poorest Americans, the same way food stamps do and all the out of control government handouts that increase dramatically because he's not fixing the economy either. But the thing is it will hurt a lot of other people. You see, Obama wants to appeal people who have good intentions and assume he does too. Obamacare is just another "feel good" solution that fools kind hearted people and does nothing to solve the real problem. Reminds me of his fake tears after that horrible tragedy just under a year ago.[/background]


You say Steve doesn't respond but what did you have to say about the 8 points I posted. I'll just quote these two.

• 6. This may be the most expensive “feel good” measure ever pursued by Democrats.Normally pharmaceutical companies are required to conduct double-blind studies to prove efficacy precisely because of the known phenomenon called the “placebo effect“. The government, having to answer to no one, apparently doesn’t have to prove that it impacts outcomes. Despite all evidence presented in the previously mentioned Oregon Medicaid study , it’s now a sufficient outcome that people felt better despite extracting no value for the taxpayer’s dollar. Obamacare will prove to be the most expensive sugar pill ever sold to the American public.

• 7. Obamacare is now projected to cost $1.8 trillion while 31 million people will remain uninsured. Remind me, didn’t we have to pass this now because there were 30 million uninsured?

 

[StevePalermo]

You say Steve doesn't respond but what did you have to say about the 8 points I posted. I'll just quote these two.

I haven't got the time to argue point by point about the ACA (which I believe to be a definite improvement on the previous system but not the ideal solution). I was asking a representative of those who continually call the President a communist/socialist to back this up with any kind of argument rather than just throwing it in there. Its an absurd description, as anyone who has the vaguest idea of what socialism/communism means would agree.

 

[internationalguy]

I've never claimed he's a socialist. In a way I wouldn't mind the US to be a little more like Denmark or Norway. I just claim that he's a very dishonest person and every time I put out rational arguments people who defend this clown either ignore them or start name calling. I'm not a big fan of the Republican way either.

 

[steveinbsas]

A prize to the first person identifying the author of this "[font=Helvetica Neue']“I get very tired of the carping of our Republican friends who have completely forever ignored the health care crisis in the country, 48 million uninsured, we as a nation are the only country in the industrialized world not to guarantee health care, 45,000 people die each year because they don’t get to a doctor on time and at the end of all that we end up spending almost twice as much as any other country for health care." [/font]

More than twice as many Americans (98,000) die each year from medical mistakes than the number of people who do not get to a doctor in time. That does not include the number of individuals who are maimed, disfigured, disabled, or otherwise harmed. Perhaps they would have been better off without health care....much better.

http://98000reasons.org/

And they call Obama a socialist/communist/muslim/tyrant for trying to do something about it. I've asked steveinbsas a couple of times about his definition of socialism/communism but he hasn't responded. I know a few genuine card carrying communists and they always laugh when they see him described thus. They think he's a puppet of Wall Street and big business. Can he be both?

Most mainstream socialist and communists would not call BHO one of their own, To them he just isn't Marxist enough.
While might not fit their definition of either socialism or communist, he is hardly an advocate of free market capitalism.
Being a "puppet" of bankers doesn't mean he endorses free enterprise. It just means he is corrupt.

As I previously wrote, he is a collectivist and he clearly embraces principles of the Marxist ideology. He is also acting outside of the powers granted to him by the Constitution, therefore he is also a criminal. He has contempt for the Constitution and would issue far more executive orders than he already has if he thought he could get away with it. He is going to "dictate"more in his second term than in the first. He is fundamentally transforming America..from the top down...and making more Americans depended on the government than ever. It's all about power and control. It has little to do with the "common good" of "society as a whole" (a collectivist concept).

http://www.forbes.co...ze-obamanomics/

And this is a very interesting blog:

http://obamaism.blogspot.com.ar/

 

[steveinbsas]

Perhaps this will make it clear that Obama doesn't give a rat's ass about the Constitution.

And that he is a dictator.

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/364093/thus-spake-obama-mark-steyn