The Best Reason Now To Be An Expat In Argentina...

[internationalguy]

Go for healthcare insurance with a non-profit company or buy shares in your healthcare company.

The affordable healthcare act only exists because universal healthcare would have been outright rejected by the republicans and anything is better than what the previous situation was like with "pre-existing conditions" and all that shit.

The Affordable CARE act exists because healthcare policies in the US suck and it was a political flag Obama wanted to wave from day one. Instead of truly reforming healthcare (probably because of the lobbyists) the democratic controlled FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, AND SENATE passed an abomination which they forced through without bipartisan consideration. Considering they had 2 years to really make a difference, and they passed this P.O.S. legislation anyway, despite all the opposition. They could have passed something worthwhile. Instead we have a law that is an insurance mandate that will help some people but will hurt 5 times more people than it helps. It's not a healthcare law, it's a mandatory private insurance law. It hurts middle class, small business, and it doesn't take anything away from the corporate giants that have the healthcare system in ridiculous situation it is.

Keep blaming the Republicans and ignoring the facts. This is not about that, we know the Republicans would serve big pharma interests too. The point is that anyone waving a flag saying one thing and doing another in your face while they have a bunch of mindless people defending them. That's what gets to me.

 

[arlean]

I can tell you people do not get it. This is not about providing coverage--it is about denying coverage. They have gotten in so deep there is no way to pay what has been "entitled" by a bankrupt country. This always always happens with socialism. We don't want to admit that there is no free lunch for us, but history shows it is true.

I worked in Israel about 13 years ago for a short time. I roomed with an R.N. from England, hired on contract by the Israeli military. I took advantage of her knowledge (as I always try to do when I have that opportunity) and asked what she thought of socialized medicine. Her answer: It is legalized euthanasia. She proceeded to give me chapter and verse of what she had seen and even experienced. That was my first warning. But that was England. That could never happen in America.

A few years later a friend in the U.S. warned me to never leave my parent alone in medical care for a minute. Have someone with them checking what is given them at all times because they are offing the elderly and the extremely ill.

I didn't believe that. Yes, there is an occasional nurse who does that, I thought, but not likely it would happen.

I was wrong. I was stupid like most Americans. I was in Argentina renewing my residency. My mother, who lived for years in an apartment on a creek in a facility in Florida, had taken ill and been moved to a room where she could get better care by hospice. Because I was in Argentina, a friend stopped in to check on Mom and I paid someone else to do that also. Just another friend, that's all. My mother died before I could get back. I was notified she had taken sick but it took me a few days and when I got back she was gone.

The friend told me they had put her on morphine and she had watched the nurse take her pulse as she gave the morphine. She thought they had killed Mom. I did not believe it.

Until a few more years later a nurse told me about going to work for hospice and being told to put an elderly man on morphine. She refused and told them she was not going to put a man who was not in pain on morphine. They let her go the next morning.

Then another friend figured out that they had offed her elderly mother (hospitalized with MRSA) and when her dad took sick with the same and was hospitalized, she had a cot brought to his room and would not leave. Finally someone told her in anger, she was denying her father a dignified death. She said, "My father is not going to die" and she got an ambulance to move him. She never left his bed during that time. That was 5 years ago and he is still alive. Last I knew he had a girlfriend and still had his draft horses. I think he is failing more now and that may no longer be the case. If you have a compelling reason, I think I could get either of these women to talk with you.

They were the ones who convinced me--finally--the dumb, stupid, incredulous American who just did NOT think that could happen. I didn't think people could be that evil. Little did I know! They can be even worse!

First it is dishonest to take money from a fellow American, that he did not agree to, to give it to me. It is stealing and that doesn't change just because I get a politician to do it for me "legally." There is no spout where the money comes out. The government has nothing to give you but what it has taken away from someone else.

One of the most unfair things I know of is the way our young families are being taxed to pay for our SOCIAL SECURITY. When I started working, the SS deduction from my pay was a pittance. Now it is bigger than the income tax. All this "stuff" we are being given is impoverishing someone else. The politicians who get elected by promising free stuff they will buy with OPM, stole the money from the SS trust fund as politicians will ALWAYS do with large amounts of money. So now we are robbing our young families. Yes, I paid it in for years. Yes I am entitled to it. But our young families did not steal that money. The politicians did and we were foolish enough to trust them enough to invest our money in their care. If you make stupid investments it is not okay to expect someone else to pay.

We need to get real and not be blinded because we want something for free. It is right for us to help each other and families to help each other, but not to steal to enhance our own lives. You can all disagree with that and I would fight for your right to disagree. I am, after all, from a genuine American heritage. I am proud of my heritage but not of what we have become.

In a sense Americans (I mean North, not South) deserve what is in store for them and what is already taking place. When you are willing to steal from each other, there are consequences. One evil brings on another. I do believe in helping the helpless, voluntarily. That's how it was when I was a young woman. We did not have these socialist programs. We had charities, the churches helped people, neighbors helped each other (there was a LOT more caring among neighbors before the government got into the act) and families helped each other, there were free county hospitals (similar to those in Argentina--but they were not federal, they were local). Often three generations lived in the same home. In fact--usually. We took care of our own. When my mother was moved from her apartment my impulse was to take her out. My son said Mom, you can go every day and see her and then go home. Little did we know. I would change it if I could, but a word to the wise is sufficient.What I pass on here might make a difference in someone's life. I know I will get flack for posting this, but my hope is that it will be helpful to someone. You can't oppose evil if you don't even realize it exists.

I do not care how desperately you want to believe it--there is no free lunch. You might think you're getting it for free, but in the end, you are paying more than you had any idea.

 

[steveinbsas]

Thanks, Arlean. That was a great post.

In 1999, at the age of 84, my dad decided to move into an extended care facility. He had been living alone in the house I grew up in since my mom died in 1982. He was not seriously ill. He just couldn't manage the house by himself. He did all of the cooking and cleaning by himself and he did not want to live in the house with anyone else.

Two months later he was dead, but that does not mean he was murdered.\

Still, I wonder...

 

[EricLovesBA]

Why? I don't have kids. Don't wanna have kids. Don't think people should have kids. Why should I foot the bill for people who want to have kids?

Exactly. Let's just let deadbeat dads off the hook too while we're at it. If they don't want to pay child support, why should they have to? Too much of a burden. Let the general public do it. After all, anything that the government pays for is free right???

 

[steveinbsas]

To see which directions the wingnuts are headed, go to http://www.salon.com...nned_hypocrite/ Meanwhile, "The Congressional Budget Office looked at [the preferred wingnut plan] in 2005 and found it didn’t reduce the number of uninsured and would only save the federal government $12 billion over the next eight years. (By contrast, the CBO says the ACA will reduce the deficit by $41 billion in 2013 alone.)"

Even if it could reduce the deficit, it isn't going to reduce the federal debt.

And the government isn't paying the price, individuals and families are.

What a difference a month makes.

These claims were made less than a month ago:

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/09/24/clinton-and-obama-claim-obamacare-will-slash-the-deficit/

 

[steveinbsas]

The Affordable CARE act exists because healthcare policies in the US suck...

In the next year, 200 million Americans (and possibly even more than that) are going to find out how good the policies they had before the ACA really were...


The ACA act was not passed into law because private insurance sucked.

It was passed into law by a bunch of thugs (aka Progressives) who want as much control over 300+ million people as possible.

They aren't primarily concerned with providing health care....or achieving the "common good" (a collectivist catch phrase).

They are concerned with expanding and maintaining their power over others.

Edit: The exp<b></b>ression "general welfare" in the preamble to the Constitution did not mean the government should create a welfare state, and nowhere in the Constitution is the federal government empowered to force citizens to buy anything, including insurance.

 

[ElQueso]

...The affordable healthcare act only exists because universal healthcare would have been outright rejected by the republicans and anything is better than what the previous situation was like with "pre-existing conditions" and all that shit.

Neither did a decent percentage of Democrats (which is growing daily)! That's what's wrong with the political situation in the US today, a lot of hyperbole on both sides that has little to do with reality. And even if it WERE just the Republicans who would not have supported it - how does that give the right to half of the country to insist on something the other half doesn't want? People forget what governments are actually for and use their collective force to force others into situations that they don't believe in and then complain when the others fight.

What cracks me up is no one seems to remember that the Democrats passed the bill IN SPITE OF the Republicans. The only reason they wouldn't have been to pass something grander (like universal, completely socialist healthcare) is because they would have lost completely the moderate support IN THEIR OWN PARTY!!!! What does that say about the plan and the desire of a true majority of the American people? Universal healthcare isn't for us, at least at this time.

As I've mentioned before, why did Obama have to sneak the health care reform in without sending it back to the Senate to be revised and made better? Because the Democrats knew that they had a very thin line as it was, everyone was voting down party lines (and the Democrats had to make a LOT of compromises within their own party just to get what was presented approved, and they still didn't have every Democrat) and Kennedy died and the people from Kennedy's own state voted a Republican into his office, after decades of strong Democratic support, in the middle of this debate about Obama Care. Literally right in the middle.

What was it Nancy Pelosi said about passing the bill to begin with? “We’ll go through the gate. If the gate’s closed, we’ll go over the fence. If the fence is too high, we’ll pole vault in. If that doesn’t work, we’ll parachute in but we're going to get health care reform passed for the America people." Democrats (and not a small amount of Republicans) didn't like Bush's forceful manner when he was in the White House, but somehow the Democrats are seen as the party that will solve all, so it's ok to use force. What hypocrisy!.

Even in the first moments of this political smoke and mirrors game, when a very large percentage of Americans were at the very least uncertain of this bill, she's saying she's going to do it for the American people, and basically in whatever manner it takes. Apparently so many people have forgotten what the democratic process in a republic is supposed to do.

I can't say this enough - one side should never win. Never. (I'm talking about politically within a country - not revolutions, for example) It should take compromises and coalitions, which is made very difficult in the American two-party system which can allow for large swings in one direction or another at times. There was no general compromise leading up to ACA - the only compromise happened within the Democratic part itself.

The process should have prevented something like Obama Care from coming into existence and allowed something that actually reforms the country's healthcare system to take its place, although it would take more time to hammer out something that would work and both sides could agree on. It's one of the reasons I love it when the government can't get anything done - they pass stupidity!! Not because they are stupid, but because they are greedy, ambitious and will do anything to see their names behind some grand piece of legislation that they can twist in whatever fashion they want.

If half the freaking country (or even close) doesn't want something - what possible right does that give the other half to force gigantic measures through with lies, half-truths and sheer backroom dealing of the Chicago type, like happened with Obama's (obviously to a large percentage of us) failed plan?

The ends never justify the means. The means defines the end itself. Only people with no regard for what other people believe in override that basic tenement, and usually do it "for the good of others."

What really, really, really cracks me up is that no one in politics that has any serious power is interested in really fixing things - but the people think they do! They are interested in protecting and augmenting their own power and leaving monuments behind to show off their "greatness". They fool so many people with their promises - and they do it over and over and over and over and over again and the people just keep on taking it. Because it's "us against them."

Nancy Pelosi, one of the biggest instruments in getting Obama Care passed, is nothing but a power monger, like all the others, and her statements should bear that out, but those who are "on her side" don't even really think about what her words mean...obviously she's fighting the "good fight" and that's good enough for them. Forget true fairness, compassion and equality for everyone, that doesn't interest anyone when they want their own agenda pushed on to everyone else.

I know there are things that both sides (regular people) in the States don't like about the existing healthcare system. Pre-existing conditions is a major one. Why not work on ways to figure out how to fix what is actually screwed up instead of planting some massive monument to hubris like the ACA? Obama wants to be seen like F. Roosevelt with his New Deal or Johnson with his Great Society? Good for him - but true greatness doesn't come from doing whatever it takes to hoodwink and large portion of the population. It comes from true vision and idealism.

When will the people of the freaking world stop contributing to the megalomania that pervades those who would rule us?

 

[ElQueso]

You seem to misunderstand how insurance, and for that matter, government, works.

For instance- I dont have a house that is burning down. Why should I foot the bill for a fire department?
I dont have Cholera- why should I foot the bill for a public health program?
I dont have diabetes, or cancer- why should I foot the bill for an insurance policy that covers them?
For that matter, I dont have a broken leg- why should I have to pay to cover something i dont have?
I dont believe in God- why should I give a tax break to churches? (in the USA- in places like Germany, the government actually collects taxes specifically for churches)

As for children- the generally accepted theory is that kids today will become workers, and taxpayers, tommorow. And, if they cant read, or have polio, they wont be able to foot the bill for MY retirement and old age health care.

We all benefit, either in Argentina, or in the USA, when kids are healthy and educated. And that means prenatal care, decent maternity wards, and education- and we all see our insurance dollars, and our tax dollars, go to those things, even when we dont have kids.

What you seem to me to be describing is merely a difference between personal responsibility and the responsibility that persons abrogate to the government.

In the best world, everyone is responsible for their own acts. The difference is that in one, a person accepts responsibility for his or her actions (or lack thereof), in the other we allow everyone to not pay attention to personal responsibility and let others take care of his or actions. I still don't see how turning to the government really solves everything, particularly in a country of 320 million people with a disparity of views.

To me, there are important roles that a government fulfills. Some basics are law and order and at least guidance on things that DIRECTLY AFFECT OTHERS (like a Cholera program).

I would have no problem, personally, to pay for a private service to come put the fire out in ay house. I don't see why we HAVE to have a government to take care of that. I'd be happy to pay a fee to an entity that worked within government rules to make sure the industry was behaving responsibly to protect my house.

If someone can afford insurance and doesn't buy it against future illnesses, why in f__k's name should I have to pay for that??? If someone eats McDonalds every day and has a heart attack at 30 , why in f__k's name should I have to pay for that??? And so on. Of course, these are extreme cases, but these are things that are brought on by others of their own volition, or happened to others who are under that person's RESPONSIBILITY.

When we take away the responsibility for people's actions, given human nature we are encouraging them to display their worst behavior.

I'm not suggesting that we should be cold and immune to the idiocies of others. But you are mixing up the idea of someone needing to coordinate things so that I don't end up with someone else's feces and urine in my front yard vs my neighbor not having insurance and going up on his roof drunk to fix his antennae so he can watch TV and falling off and breaking his arm.

Obviously everyone is better off when everyone is happy and healthy, but the government ain't gonna make it so.

Community and values imposed at a family level WILL make that different, but it can't come from the government. In fact, if the US wasn't such a political behemoth with control over so many people, Americans would be freer to try things in different places and find out what actually works at a local level instead of everyone trying to force everyone into the same mold. What's good for a Texan isn't necessarily good for a New Yorker or Californian, in the same way that what's good for an Englishman is not necessarily good for a Frenchman. It doesn't necessarily have anything to do with nationality, but rather with the regional differences that are inevitable. And in this day and age, I'm believing that the difference between a Texan and a Californian may be about as great as that between and Englishman and a Frenchman, even though the Texan and the Californian speak the same language (idiomatic differences notwithstanding).

To fix the problem with healthcare in the US, we need to make healthcare affordable so that everyone who CAN afford it can buy it (or not) at their choice, have some sort of safety net for those who truly cannot pay for health care (although they should pay as much as they can afford with subsidies for the rest) so that they get good care, and tell the rest who are too ignorant to take care of themselves that they are dependent on their own families or charities who are worried about protecting idiots to take care of them. If some states want to have their own universal healthcare system - guess what? They should be allowed to. But don't ask me to pay for some guy in New York or California because he believes that we should live in a collective state together - and the vegetarian in California shouldn't have to pay for the Texan's gut-full of red-meat-caused intestinal cancer!

The government isn't your nanny, no matter how much you want to believe it, and you can't believe whole-heartedly what comes from any government.

 

[French jurist]

I took advantage of her knowledge (as I always try to do when I have that opportunity) and asked what she thought of socialized medicine. Her answer: It is legalized euthanasia.

Subject is complex/debated enough already between Americans but "socialized" does not mean that we'll call each other comrade & the Red Army tanks will soon parade in the city.

It's of course not black & white. Being poor or middle class, I'd prefer to get sick in France. Being rich with a very rare disease, I'll likely prefer to pay to get treated in the US.

In France, we live longer than in the US (OK, many reasons to that: if we need to go buy bread at the corner, we'll walk while an American will rather take his car = obesity, etc.).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHyLwHqpNO0

I guess we can learn from both systems. In France, the main problem right now is chasing fraud + promoting the use of cheaper drugs which have the same effect (France is a golden market for pharmaceutical companies).

 

[sleslie23]

Why? I don't have kids. Don't wanna have kids. Don't think people should have kids. Why should I foot the bill for people who want to have kids?

That's a great question. I wonder how many children of libertarians I have had to help educate with my tax dollars.