The Breakdown Is Here: Jail For Irregulars

[jantango]

http://www.bubblear.com/controversy-over-macri-administrations-alleged-intention-to-open-a-detention-center-for-illegal-immigrants/

 

[steveinbsas]

http://www.bubblear....gal-immigrants/

Thanks for posting the link.

Perhaps the title of this thread was as unintentionally amusing as it was intentionally alarming.The resolution to incarcerate "irregulars" applies to those who illegally entered the country and/or those who have received a deportation order.

Until we start hearing about cases of foreigners who entered the country legally and have overstayed their tourist visas being rounded up and receiving deportation orders (which would actually constitute a crackdown), it's probably too soon for the pseudo-tourists to have a nervous breakdown.

From the article:

The center, located in the Capital’s neighborhood of Barracas, would start operating on September 1 and, according to a resolution from the Security Ministry headed by Patricia Bullrich, will hold those who “illegally entered the (nation’s) territory” or have “a court order determining their expulsion,” a decision that is finally made by the National Migrations Direction (DNM).


I recall a recent post by an expat who had overstayed his student visa which, because of a mistake of migraciones, expired before the course ended.

http://baexpats.org/...re-course-ends/

When I asked this:

If migraciones is enacting deportation orders for students who overstay their visa, how likely are they to start doing the same for tourists?

Dr. Rubilar answered with this:

The DNM follows the students visa with periodical checks. It is standard. So, he is in the radar while they cannot follow the tourist entry permits (i-94).

Pseudo-tourists can only hope this is still true.

 

[Noesdeayer]

Once again we hear from The Bubble "La voz de ellos que no tienen voz" but in English already yet..
I could be wrong but I believe that Australia has an island detention center for illegal immigrants.
Maybe one of the Bubble staff from Australia could clarify that for us. ?

 

[citygirl]

But I believe that potential clients on here wouldn't be affected by either of the situations mentioned (entering illegally or overstaying a deportation notice) so better to have it be slightly alarmist no?

ETA - The above aside, I think if this is true (and details are sketchy) - it's pretty horrible. One of the things I've always loved about Argentina is the relatively open immigration policy and I hope it continue to welcome everyone that wants to come and work and make a better life for him/herself and make a better Argentina.

 

[steveinbsas]

But I believe that potential clients on here wouldn't be affected by either of the situations mentioned (entering illegally or overstaying a deportation notice) so better to have it be slightly alarmist no?

Slightly alarmist, yes, but I wouldn't get terribly worried until someone posts that, upon paying their first overstay fee, their passport was stamped with a five year ban on reentry...

 

[Bajo_cero2]

My understanding is that that's the change. You wouldn't have been with any criminal population, since they didn't detain people for immigration issues.

Until now you were detained in a office.
With all my respect, oyu, in fact, were detained until the judge call the Immigration agents in Ezeiza. But now they will have a real jail. (you are detained if you can not freely leave).

The big risk of this are razzias (organized rallies of arresting immigrants). Human rights organizations states that they are going to be used to arrest immigrants found without precaria.

In fact, right now, if you go to control de permanencia (the office where you go when you get a deportation order) they arrest you until it is time for them to go home.

Regarding expats, I insist always in the same. You need only one a... h...e to get detained in a jail and we know there are 2 at Ezeiza, plus this excess of power will skyrocket brives requirements.

 

[Bajo_cero2]

But I believe that potential clients on here wouldn't be affected by either of the situations mentioned (entering illegally or overstaying a deportation notice) so better to have it be slightly alarmist no?

ETA - The above aside, I think if this is true (and details are sketchy) - it's pretty horrible. One of the things I've always loved about Argentina is the relatively open immigration policy and I hope it continue to welcome everyone that wants to come and work and make a better life for him/herself and make a better Argentina.

It is a big alarm that something might go very wrong. So, wait and see.
Meanwhile I am working on a class action because prevention is better than cure.

 

[gpop]

How much of this is aimed at people from [developed nation] overseas as opposed to migrants illegally entering from neighboring countries?

I'd think that there are different aspects for dealing with a perma-tourist with a several months of over-stay than with migrants crossing the border with false documents and working under the table and settling down in a villa. I'd imagine that the proportions are vastly different. Which is it that the gov is so concerned about actually?

On the one hand, the overseas types are bring in money and spending it here, most of the time their documentation is defined, complete, and with criminal records checked. These are much easier to detect and manage.
On the other hand continental migrants would be a logistical nightmare, do not pay taxes, strain the social system, and have often been a source of political manipulation, and may be unchecked criminals. If the plan is to detain either of these then the continental migrant might be harder to detain then repatriate without additional reliance on public funds. (this is why I mentioned incarceration as meals and a place to sleep while Arg. gov tries to figure out what to do with them)

 

[Ceviche]

On the one hand, the overseas types are bring in money and spending it here and not [background=rgb(252, 252, 252)]working under the table.[/background]

[background=rgb(252, 252, 252)]migrants are crossing the border with false documents[/background]

On the other hand continental migrants would be a logistical nightmare, do not pay taxes, strain the social system,

Are you serious?

The typical permanent tourist does not work under the table?

The typical permanent tourist pays taxes while a Bolivian does not? How??

The typical permanent tourist does not strain the social system? Never heard of perma tourists using public hospitals and having a surgery for free?

The South Americans do not need to cross with false documents. They just use their cedula and within the law.

===

The major problem is the influx of Chinese who are obviously in cahoots with the government and are arriving in hoardes and eventually getting the nationality. Its amazing to see 100's of Chinese with Argentine passport ( probably bajo's ex-clients) , standing together with local Argies, when arriving from abroad.

The 2nd major difference is that migrants from neighboring countries are usually poor and they feel that they can have a better lifestyle in Argentina, which I personally feel is a myth cos to have a good lifestyle here, you need to earn well.

The 3rd major difference is that perma tourists are usually Caucasians from USA or Western Europe, and are considered more welcome due to some racist policies than a Bolivian or a Peruvian.

Usually the perma-tourists are not criminally minded but I have seen that some of them have this false notion, that they can do anything here and get away with it just because this is a friendly welcoming country. Same applies to the poor migrants who are just searching a better life barring a few bad "apples".

 

[steveinbsas]

Regarding expats, I insist always in the same. You need only one a... h...e to get detained in a jail and we know there are 2 at Ezeiza, plus this excess of power will skyrocket brives requirements.

Three questions:

Are departing "irregular" expats who do not have a deportation order and have just paid an overstay fee being detained in an Ezeiza "jail" until it's time to board the plane?

In addition to the overstay fee, is anyone asking them to pay a bribe of any kind?

Are arriving foreigners who have previously overstayed a tourist visa being detained and/or being asked to pay a bribe?