The Macri Debate

[wineguy999]

...Accordingly, it isn't only Adolph Eichmann of the German SS (to whom you incorrectly refer as Bauchman)...

Thank you for shedding some light on that. Having studied the Third Reich in great detail, I couldn't make heads or tails of who this character was supposed to be.

And of course, the Doktor is completely incorrect in his assessment of Eichmann's place in the Reich.

 

[Bajo_cero2]

Appreciate your attempts to substantiate your accusations with facts.

Attemps...right! No comments.

"Pure Argentine" and/or "pure Porteno" sound nationalistic, not racist. How are those terms defined for purposes of the tango contest? Were such terms used otherwise, in some other context, to define or limit the rights of citizens or residents? Moreover, was it Macri or the contest organizers who independently adopted these categories? Is there nothing more for which you accuse Macri of racism? If not, this is an absurd accusation.

Nationalistic is to require to be a citizen. To be a pure argentine or porteño is regarding race. According to Zuloaga until a 75% of argentina blood is considered pure argentine.
The problem is that you are clueless about this debate of the last 100 years.
Absurd? Really? Be less arrogant if you are so ignorant.
By the was, it was so absurd my point that the Tango Contest was cancelled and the rules enacted by Macri had to be changed.

Preliminarily, is it wrong for a country to define who may enter its borders and under what circumstances?

It is a right of every country but Argentina defined this topic at the National Constitution that cannot be abolish by the will of the Fuhrer Prinzip. This is why the DNU was declared unconstitutional.

Secondly, do you believe that people who illegally enter Argentina, are entitled to the identical rights of Argentine citizens?

It is not about believe or not, the National Constitution states equal rights to all human beings no matter how they enter the country because originally who entered illegally were slaves who escaped from Brasil.
However, to heal the illegal entry through becoming a citizenship has a long juridic tradition of about 700 years in Spanish law.

 

[Bajo_cero2]

Thank you for shedding some light on that. Having studied the Third Reich in great detail, I couldn't make heads or tails of who this character was supposed to be.

And of course, the Doktor is completely incorrect in his assessment of Eichmann's place in the Reich.

I never mentioned Eichmann.
What I never understood of your guys is how can you be so arrogant and ignorant. I guess that ignorancy and arrogancy need each other.
I’m a profesional about law and I was referring to process law on a very specific topic where I’m specialized, here is the quote of the paper where the III Reich administrative system was based:

 

[Bajo_cero2]

Re the DNU/2017-arrest- deportation of those illegally in the country: When you say there is no right of an "appeal", from what would there be the appeal? Some kind of hearing? I am confused by the use of this word (appeal) inasmuch as an "appeal" in a judicial sense ordinarily means an appeal from a quasi judicial decision, not an arrest.

FYI an administrative act of deportation cannot be enforced without a Judge confirming it. There are 2 ways for that. 1) the immigrant appeals it under a Federal Judge, the Chamber and the Supreme Court or b) once he is arrested you do an habeas corpus before a judge and you follow the same path of appeals. If the decision is denied you can appeal it.
An arrest can always being appealed.
However, the will of Macri was that they were deported no matter what judges says neither if they decided or not.

Arrest without a warrant and subsequent detention is routine in the civil justice system in the US and if I am not mistaken in other democracies around the world.

The National Constitution states that nobody can be arrested without a judge order based on a Court previous case.
It also states that if the President order an arrest, he must be taken to a Judge immediately.
The DNU deny judges to reverse arrest orders.

Yes, the accused in a criminal case is entitled to a speedy hearing generally referred to as an arraignment (where one pleads innocent or guilty) and thereafter to a speedy trial. Please clarify. Are you saying that there is no hearing prior to deportation or are you saying that the Arg hearing in a deportation matter is before an admin officer and not a judge? The latter is commonplace as magistrates or admin officers routinely hear certain kinds of cases (probably deportation included) in the US judicial system.

What was happening is that immigration deported people in a rush when they knew that a judges was going to order to free him. This is why the boss of the deportation department had a rain of criminal cases against him. I witness how immigration was lying to a judge to make some time while they were deporting him.

 

[julian63]

Attemps...right! No comments.



Nationalistic is to require to be a citizen. To be a pure argentine or porteño is regarding race. According to Zuloaga until a 75% of argentina blood is considered pure argentine.
The problem is that you are clueless about this debate of the last 100 years.
Absurd? Really? Be less arrogant if you are so ignorant.
By the was, it was so absurd my point that the Tango Contest was cancelled and the rules enacted by Macri had to be changed.
WELL, I AM UNAWARE OF THE 100 YEAR OLD DEBATE, BUT TELL ME....CAN A BLACK SKINNED PERSON BE 75% ARGENTINE AND THUS QUALIFY FOR THE DANCE CONTEST? HOW ABOUT A YELLOW SKINNED PERSON WHO HAS BEEN BORN IN ARGENTINA OF PARENTS GRANDPARENTS WHO WERE LIKEWISE BORN IN ARGENTINA? HOW IS ARGENTINE BLOOD DEFINED? IN OTHER WORDS, DOES THE COLOR OF SKIN OR RACE FIGURE INTO THE DEFINITION "PURE ARGENTINE?"
MORE IMPORTANTLY, HAS THE MACRI ADMIN LIMITED THE RIGHTS OF PERSONS BASED UPON RACE OR SKIN COLOR?



It is a right of every country but Argentina defined this topic at the National Constitution that cannot be abolish by the will of the Fuhrer Prinzip. This is why the DNU was declared unconstitutional.


It is not about believe or not, the National Constitution states equal rights to all human beings no matter how they enter the country because originally who entered illegally were slaves who escaped from Brasil.
However, to heal the illegal entry through becoming a citizenship has a long juridic tradition of about 700 years in Spanish law.

OK, THANKS . THE ARGENTINE CONSTITUTION PROVIDES FOR RIGHTS TO THOSE WHO ENTER THE COUNTRY ILLEGALLY. DO THOSE RIGHTS GUARANTEE A FAIR AND MEANINGFUL JUDICIAL/ADMIN HEARING PRIOR TO DEPORTATION? IF SO, AND SUCH HEARINGS ARE NOT PROVIDED, WHY HASN'T SOMEONE LIKE YOU INSTITUED AN ACTION TO REQUIRE THE GOVERNMENT TO CONFORM? OR HAVE YOU? (ON A BASIS THAT IS BEYOND THE INDIVIDUAL CASE LEVEL SO THAT THE PROCEDURES ARE MADE TO CONFORM TO APPLICABLE LAW)

 

[wineguy999]

I never mentioned Eichmann.
What I never understood of your guys is how can you be so arrogant and ignorant. I guess that ignorancy and arrogancy need each other.
I’m a profesional about law and I was referring to process law on a very specific topic where I’m specialized, here is the quote of the paper where the III Reich administrative system was based:View attachment 4921

Why is your image so restricted? What is his first name? Perhaps this person was instrumental in some sub-sub-sub-administrative capacity, but to imply that he was one of the framers of the Third Reich is ludicrous.

You wrote the book on arrogance. Therefore, by your logic...

 

[julian63]

FYI an administrative act of deportation cannot be enforced without a Judge confirming it. There are 2 ways for that. 1) the immigrant appeals it under a Federal Judge, the Chamber and the Supreme Court or b) once he is arrested you do an habeas corpus before a judge and you follow the same path of appeals. If the decision is denied you can appeal it.
An arrest can always being appealed.
However, the will of Macri was that they were deported no matter what judges says neither if they decided or not.



The National Constitution states that nobody can be arrested without a judge order based on a Court previous case.
It also states that if the President order an arrest, he must be taken to a Judge immediately.
The DNU deny judges to reverse arrest orders.



What was happening is that immigration deported people in a rush when they knew that a judges was going to order to free him. This is why the boss of the deportation department had a rain of criminal cases against him. I witness how immigration was lying to a judge to make some time while they were deporting him.

THERE MAY BE SOME LANGUAGE CONFUSION HERE....WHEN A RAPE OR THEFT IS WITNESSED BY A POLICE OFFICER, THE OFFICER MAY ARREST THE PERPETRAITOR WITHOUT FIRST SECURING A WARRANT, RIGHT? IS THE LAW DIFFERENT IN ARGENTINA?
ALSO, AN "APPEAL" OF AN ARREST? DO YOU MEAN A HABEAS CORPOUS TYPE OF PROCESS TO CONTEST AN UNLAFUL ARREST AND DETENTION?
IT APPEARS FROM YOUR REPORTS THAT IMMIGRATION AUTHORITIES WERE GAMING THE SYSTEM. IT IS GOOD THAT THEY SHOULD BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE. FURTHER, AM I TO UNDERSTAND THAT THIS TYPE OF DEPORTATION ABUSE WAS INSTITUTED UNDER MACRI?

 

[Bajo_cero2]

Accordingly, it isn't only Adolph Eichmann of the German SS (to whom you incorrectly refer as Bauchman) who employed admin hearings in certain kinds proceedings affecting the civil rights of the participants. Without any doubt, the use of non-judges in certain judicial/administrative proceedings is not, in and of itself, a denial of due process of the law let alone a Nazi thing.

When freedom is the right we are talking about, a judge is a Constitutional requirement and a Federal Judge is he is a foreigner.
The legal system of the III Reich was based in the abolishment of the Federal and Jurisdictional system replaced by the administrative authorities that flooded the orders of the Fuher. Exactly the same made Macri where he enact a decree where immigration police replaced Criminal Judges regarding the investigation of the crime of international trafficking of immigrants.
By the way, a small detail, besides your very particular opinion, it was declared unconstitutional because it violated the defense rights that were twisted into a joke according to the Federal Judges of the Chamber.

The attempt to make a correlation between the madness of the nazi holocaust and rapid deportation of illegal entrants in Argentina is patently absurd. That is true whether there is a preliminary hearing or not, but much more so if there is one, even if only before some kind of admin officer.

Your assert is based in your ignorance of the legal system of the III Reich.

Nevertheless, I do tend to agree that it is harsh IF the targeted illegal alien is ALWAYS deported before a hearing can be had. Is that always the case? I"m not very familiar with US laws in this area, but I believe the same may even be true in the US re illegal entrants, at least those caught entering along the southern border of the US. However, what I am most surprised at is that the "immigration enforcement authorities/police," however organized, are able to ignore court orders. This boggles my mind. If this is truly the case, then the judicial and policing systems need review and modification. No one in the executive branch of government should be able to ignore a proper judicial decree. At least, where I come from that would be grounds for impeachment

Regarding to ignore Court orders, it was in all the newspapers and it was a scandal.
I made the first criminal complaint against the boss of immigration because he ignored 2 Court orders that stated he cannot be moved until SC decides.
The Chamber of Appeals when declared the DNU unconstitutional established that there was no emergency that justified a so fast procedure. If there was no emergency, there was racism.

Re the chicanery of shuffling money between off shore entities and those that control them in order to avoid taxes, I presume there are applicable criminal laws in Argentina regarding tax evasion. If so, the appropriate judicial officers ought to determine whether the laws were violated. Is there nothing going forward in this regard? Is that because the Argentine law was not violated? (Legal tax avoidance vs illegal tax evasion.) Can you specify exactly how a crime was committed? If the delinquent corporate borrower was in fact controlled by the lender, then presumably a crime was committed. Is there no one prepared to bring such a case? What gives? I would imagine Macri has plenty of enemies in Congress who could assert pressure to institute appropriate penal proceedings whether impeachment or otherwise.

There are many criminal cases going on about that and this is why he is pressing so much the Court system trying to control it.

How does Macri's involvement in Odebrecht ) rise to the level of a crime? (Is your use of 'Obedrecht' an intentional Yiddish pun?) You have not answered this. Are you attempting to tar him with the same brush as the Brasilian politicians who got caught with their fingers in the state till robbing state funds? You need to specify. Mindless incantation of the word "Obedrecht" means nothing.

Macri is the local partner of Obedrech so, if Obedrech pays bribes it means he was paying bribes. However, I do not have to do nothing about it, you, instead, should be less lazy and read the news.

 

[Bajo_cero2]

Re "gas. light, oil prices" - there was a tremendous increase at the start of Mari's term (not sure if it was 400%, but it was huge). That was not politic and not geared to garner support from the voting public so, if anything, it goes to show that Macri was not acting just to be a popular leader. The fact of the matter is that the huge increases were indubitably necessary for the utility companies to remain effectively operational. After all, they were receiving massive state subsidies so that the people who live in the Recoleta could have unnecessarily minuscule utility bills.

The problem is when the CEO of Shell is the Minister of energy and you know what happens? YPF decrease the production at purpose and buys oil to Shell. The second thing that happened is the cancelation of the contracts with Bolivia so now the gas is bought to Shell who buys it to Bolivia but the price now is 250% more expensive.

Regarding the electricity bills, one of the electricity company belongs to Lewis who is a close friend of Macri. He forgiven him a debt of 1 billion pesos and allowed huge rises in the bills.
http://noticias.perfil.com/2016/12/05/macri-y-joe-lewis-una-amistad-provechosa/

Sorry, I see a lot of corruption.

Talk about "wealth distribution!" Hey, it was like "free electricity" underwritten by those who gave you "milanesas para todos." Unfortunately, the utility subsidies were depleting the state's treasury - not in the best interests of the country, but an irresponsible ploy for the power hungry K Klan to gain uninformed public popularity.

Well, explain me how to forgive 1 billion pesos does not empty the treasury if the state because it seems that who is becoming super rich is Lewis.

In fact, the initial huge increase was rolled back slightly and I am totally confounded by your assertion that there has been a 400% increase in utility bills every 6 months. That is patently false. Subsequent increases have been nowhere near that high and now may even still be be less than they were after the initial huge increase at the start of his term.

I´m sorry, it was only 168% while salaries rises 15%.

In re the propping up of the peso...I don't dispute the Arg government may be flooding the market with USD to keep the price low. This may or may not be a valid fiscal policy necessary in the short term, but like you I doubt if it will remain a long term panacea for the ills that plague the Arg economy. Productivity needs to be improved by modification of existing employment and tax laws to generate investment in manufacturing and farming. It is a shame that a country with a population as well educated as that of Argentina lacks a viable tech industry and other manufacturing industries.

I agree. But the usd exchange rate boycotts the industry and farming a lot. In fact, in the 70´the industry of Argentina was super strong but it was destroyed at porpoise by the same exchange rate.

 

[Bajo_cero2]

OK, THANKS . THE ARGENTINE CONSTITUTION PROVIDES FOR RIGHTS TO THOSE WHO ENTER THE COUNTRY ILLEGALLY. DO THOSE RIGHTS GUARANTEE A FAIR AND MEANINGFUL JUDICIAL/ADMIN HEARING PRIOR TO DEPORTATION? IF SO, AND SUCH HEARINGS ARE NOT PROVIDED, WHY HASN'T SOMEONE LIKE YOU INSTITUED AN ACTION TO REQUIRE THE GOVERNMENT TO CONFORM? OR HAVE YOU? (ON A BASIS THAT IS BEYOND THE INDIVIDUAL CASE LEVEL SO THAT THE PROCEDURES ARE MADE TO CONFORM TO APPLICABLE LAW)

I was part of the group of lawyers who acchieved the DNU to be declared unconstitutional. I also acchieve another 4 decisions that leaves the DNU without any legal value.

I also made the criminal complaint against the head of the deportation for illegal arrest. It was very important because it caused a rebelion of the immigration police because they refuse ro arrest without the order of a judge. My respect to all of them because many lost their jobs or qere sanctioned.

I also adviced Official Federal defenders regaing to make the crimibal complanits for every illegal arrest and this made the boss of deportation fall because now the decree he wrote is invalid and he is facing several criminal cases where he might be sentence to over 12 years of jail each.

Plus I was I was threatened with imprisonment and I was fined in about 1 million pesos.