There is something I don't get...

[steveinbsas]

It's really simple. Some people are negative and like to complain all the time. It has nothing to do with Argentina so please don't take offense. That is why the "if you don't like my country, get the f out of here" is a bullcrap argument.

Actually, I think it has everything to do with Argentina. I think it's simply a matter of the OP seeing far greater problems in Argentina to be concerned about than the one's that expats are complaining about on this forum....though I agree with your implication that some people just like to bitch.

 

[dennisr]

They call it "Ethnocentrism," makes some feel superior and enlightened. They believe it is their calling to point out faults and shortcomings of others. Sick bunch.

 

[ElQueso]

Steve, what you say has some truth.

However, does the opinion that food in Buenos Aires is not good make it worth saying "love it or leave it?" I'm of the opinion that Argentina does not have a lot of good food. There is some, sure, but unless it is Parilla, Pasta or Pizza, it is not of an equal quality of what I am used to in the States for what I PERSONALLY LIKE. I come from a city (Houston) that a lot of people don't realize has more good restaurants per square mile than many US cities. I didn't come here for the food, but does that mean I don't miss what I consider to be good food and can't mention that at times?

I admit that my tastes and those of Argentinos don't always coincide. So what? So I should leave Argetnina? Of course, you won't find me talking much about the food here because it's not a big deal really. If I'm in the mood for something that is not meat or pasta, I'll fix it myself, with a few exceptions.

I DO complain a lot about the insane driving here - but then, so do most of my Argentine friends! Should we all leave Argentina?

Sometimes I get frustrated that all the stores here in Argentina will have a couple of specific things in stock - for a month. Then I won't see these things for months afterwards. Does this mean I should leave Argentina, because I get frustrated over that? Does it really hurt that I might complain about that? So what if I do? It's a truth that things are not avialable. If someone doesn't agree with me, tell me. That's fine. But if something isn't here, it isn't here.

Making comments about dirty streets and torn up sidealks is commenting on a fact. Should everyone hide from one part of reality while enjoying the other? Good for those who can, but for those who it bugs - so what if someone says something about it? Is it true or not? Because they have the opinion that they would rather not see it and that it detracts from the look of the city, should they really leave Argentina?

I lived side by side with imigrants in the States, worked with guys who were there on business visas from the UK and other countries (long term, years), and I put up with their comments about the things they found distasteful in the US ALL THE TIME! So what? I sure as hell didn't tell them "America: love it or leave it!"

Sharing ideas comes in all shapes and sizes. Asking people to stop talking about their "negative" (to some) issues or get out of the country is a form of censure. Why do it? Who is it hurting really? I listen to people all the time cutting down the US on this forum and in person. Ok, cool, so what? I take offense at the outright lies and try to straighten out misunderstandings when I think it may do some good, but what can I do when the truth is mentioned? Shrug my shoulders and say "what can I say?" is about the extent of it.

Learn to grow a thick skin. If someone reads something someone says and doesn't like it, respond back with why you think that person is wrong. Maybe the two won't convince each other, but other people reading it, who may not have such a high stake, will form opinions. It's called discussion and openness. Shouldn't be feared. It should also be polite, and there are people of ALL nationalities I've seen here be quite combative in their statements and their responses - THAT is a problem.

If an Argentine reading the forum is insulted, I hope it's not from something I've said because I try to be reasonably polite as long as I'm treated with politeness as well. But if so, the Argentine who is offended is certainly welcome to defend his/her point of view as well! If that's not good enough, we're a very small minority and why not ignore US if that's a problem?

And BTW - no, I have not seen Argentines complaining about ther own food. Not really sure why you brought that up because I'm not sure why they would. Those are problems that some expats have adjusting to things here. So what? Why is that a problem to anyone else?

I HAVE seen Argentinos demonstrating in the streets and causing traffic backups because subte conductors want more money (for example) - even though they are paid more than my dentist and many doctors (at least according to my dentist). If I were an Argentine I would complain about THAT - and in fact, many of my friends do. Two of them just moved back to Cordoba where, according to them, things are more sane (and having visited a there a few times I would agree, to an extent at least).

I like living here more than I don't like living here. I like living here more than I like living in the US. But does that mean I have no right to complain about the things I don't like here?

 

[steveinbsas]

Steve, what you say has some truth.

However, does the opinion that food in Buenos Aires is not good make it worth saying "love it or leave it?" I'm of the opinion that Argentina does not have a lot of good food. There is some, sure, but unless it is Parilla, Pasta or Pizza, it is not of an equal quality of what I am used to in the States for what I PERSONALLY LIKE. I come from a city (Houston) that a lot of people don't realize has more good restaurants per square mile than many US cities. I didn't come here for the food, but does that mean I don't miss what I consider to be good food and can't mention that at times?

I admit that my tastes and those of Argentinos don't always coincide. So what? So I should leave Argetnina? Of course, you won't find me talking much about the food here because it's not a big deal really. If I'm in the mood for something that is not meat or pasta, I'll fix it myself, with a few exceptions.

I DO complain a lot about the insane driving here - but then, so do most of my Argentine friends! Should we all leave Argentina?

Sometimes I get frustrated that all the stores here in Argentina will have a couple of specific things in stock - for a month. Then I won't see these things for months afterwards. Does this mean I should leave Argentina, because I get frustrated over that? Does it really hurt that I might complain about that? So what if I do? It's a truth that things are not avialable. If someone doesn't agree with me, tell me. That's fine. But if something isn't here, it isn't here.

Making comments about dirty streets and torn up sidealks is commenting on a fact. Should everyone hide from one part of reality while enjoying the other? Good for those who can, but for those who it bugs - so what if someone says something about it? Is it true or not? Because they have the opinion that they would rather not see it and that it detracts from the look of the city, should they really leave Argentina?

I lived side by side with imigrants in the States, worked with guys who were there on business visas from the UK and other countries (long term, years), and I put up with their comments about the things they found distasteful in the US ALL THE TIME! So what? I sure as hell didn't tell them "America: love it or leave it!"

Sharing ideas comes in all shapes and sizes. Asking people to stop talking about their "negative" (to some) issues or get out of the country is a form of censure. Why do it? Who is it hurting really? I listen to people all the time cutting down the US on this forum and in person. Ok, cool, so what? I take offense at the outright lies and try to straighten out misunderstandings when I think it may do some good, but what can I do when the truth is mentioned? Shrug my shoulders and say "what can I say?" is about the extent of it.

Learn to grow a thick skin. If someone reads something someone says and doesn't like it, respond back with why you think that person is wrong. Maybe the two won't convince each other, but other people reading it, who may not have such a high stake, will form opinions. It's called discussion and openness. Shouldn't be feared. It should also be polite, and there are people of ALL nationalities I've seen here be quite combative in their statements and their responses - THAT is a problem.

If an Argentine reading the forum is insulted, I hope it's not from something I've said because I try to be reasonably polite as long as I'm treated with politeness as well. But if so, the Argentine who is offended is certainly welcome to defend his/her point of view as well! If that's not good enough, we're a very small minority and why not ignore US if that's a problem?

And BTW - no, I have not seen Argentines complaining about ther own food. Not really sure why you brought that up because I'm not sure why they would. Those are problems that some expats have adjusting to things here. So what? Why is that a problem to anyone else?

I HAVE seen Argentinos demonstrating in the streets and causing traffic backups because subte conductors want more money (for example) - even though they are paid more than my dentist and many doctors (at least according to my dentist). If I were an Argentine I would complain about THAT - and in fact, many of my friends do. Two of them just moved back to Cordoba where, according to them, things are more sane (and having visited a there a few times I would agree, to an extent at least).

I like living here more than I don't like living here. I like living here more than I like living in the US. But does that mean I have no right to complain about the things I don't like here?

Please read some of HotYogaTeacher's post and respond to them.

She is the poster girl (and a damn good one) for not liking life here.

I never told her to stop complaining, shut up, or leave, but I countered some of her negative posts with positive ones based on my own experiences here.

I love it here. I don't expect others to have an equal experience, but that's their problem, especially if they are here by choice. They really do have the option to leave (I hope).

There are many posts in the forum complaining about the food here, including mine about how awful the pseudo Mexican food (specifically burritos) are in the center. I don't eat in restaurants very often, even when I travel, expect when I am in Paris. Even there I cook most of my meals in the apartments where I am staying. Here, I cook my own meals 99.9% of the time.

I never said you couldn't or shouldn't complain, but there are so many on this forum who really should just go home...if not somewhere else...if they want to be happy.

That's precisely why I left Mexico (after living there for five years) and came to Buenos Aires.

 

[mini]

Every immigrant/expat group from one country to another complains about the food in the new country. That's why they bring their food with them which then gets adapted, adjusted & mixed into the new culture. This is a good thing.

The sidewalks & the other stuff... we will probably not see that change in the near future. So, sure we can complain about it for a little while, let off the steam, but at the end of the day, you will have to except it and just live with it or not and then if it upsets you enough you will move on. & that is personal decision.

 

[mini]

I never said you couldn't complain, but there are so many on this forum who really should just go home...if not somewhere else...if they want to be happy.

Yes. There really are some people who are just happier back "at home" and aren't the right personality type to live "abroad". I'm just happy they at least tried to live somewhere else.

 

[iStar]

go back home, get a real life, a real job, form a family and came back in the future with a few extra bucks, stay in a first class hotel and enjoy this city in a proper way???

How does any of the above change the fact BA has a problem with broken sidewalks, pollution, dog crap and garbage on the streets

For example: when I first arrived I stayed at The Four Seasons Hotel for 10 days but each time I stepped out I was confronted with everything I just mentioned. So what's your point?

And what does "form a family" have to do with anything? Is a person who is not married and doesn't have children any less of a human being?

I often wonder about the people that post here.. do they even have a passport? Have they ever visited a first world country?

We learn from what we experience each day. While in BA, I've learned that I will NEVER complain about certain things from back 'home" ever again.

 

[arty]

Everyone who travels and lives in a different place will complain about something. That's a fact of life. I had a friend from Israel who complained there was too much stuff to choose from at the super market and the malls had too much stuff. You can't please everyone. Plus, I figure the more I complain the more I'm like a local ;-)

 

[ElQueso]

Yes. There really are some people who are just happier back "at home" and aren't the right personality type to live "abroad". I'm just happy they at least tried to live somewhere else.

And actually, I agree with both you and Steve on that point. It's one thing to complain at times, but I do know some people that have no business being outside of the their respective comfort zones. They are absolutely miserable here.

 

[steveinbsas]

I often wonder about the people that post here.. do they even have a passport? Have they ever visited a first world country?

I am intrigued by this question...which people are you referring to? Don't you think that most of those who post here are either foreigners living in BA or have visited at least once....and have passports? Who is it that you think might not have visited a first world country?