Thinking Of Coming Back--Question About Prices And Andes

[NYKate]

But since the time I was there, even the official exchange rate has increased about 50%, so is it really that bad in terms of dollars?
I don't understand what people are spending money on there. Are you guys all overpaying for apts.? Going shopping for shoes, etc.? Maybe I went up to $2000 often but that's because I went out a lot. I ate out literally every day, at nice places; how is it possible that $1500/month is not enough?

Also, any advice on rural locations? In Uruguay you can rent a very nice rural house for next to nothing. I'm wondering if people know of places in Argentina, whether near Bariloche, or Salta, etc., where you can rent a good, comfortable cabin with mountain views and a peaceful atmosphere.

The prices for apartments has indeed risen. I have found that people in this forum who talk about how expensive it is are earning pesos, lived here longer than a year, have cars, insurance, and/or families to pay for etc. Did you have a guarantia when you obtained your apartment or did you sign a lease for temp rental? Usually you have to rent for 2 years or more with the price going up 20% each year. I am quite versed in apartment rental prices in my barrio and, during my search for a decent apartment noticed how quickly the prices have risen so decided to stay put. It is not that we are paying too much, it is that there aren't many good deals and, in all honesty, BsAs is expensive and will stay that way as long as real estate is seen as the only good investment opportunity for people here.

 

[polostar88]

Basic food and toiletry items are hyper-inflated right now. 100 pesos will buy you one bag of stuff. Butter $9, jam $16, milk $7.50, small jar coffee $18, small beer $7.50, small coke $6.50, cheese $15, deodorant $20, mouthwash $20....it's easy to spend $100 a day just at the store.

These prices sound similar, maybe slightly less than in the US. Not great, but not terrible.

If you guys want to see *real* inflation, go to Brazil. Huge rise in prices over the last few years + falling dollar.

Still, thanks for the info., I guess it's still doable. Might be cheaper in rural Argentina, which is where I want to go anyway.

 

[polostar88]

The prices for apartments has indeed risen. I have found that people in this forum who talk about how expensive it is are earning pesos, lived here longer than a year, have cars, insurance, and/or families to pay for etc. Did you have a guarantia when you obtained your apartment or did you sign a lease for temp rental? Usually you have to rent for 2 years or more with the price going up 20% each year. I am quite versed in apartment rental prices in my barrio and, during my search for a decent apartment noticed how quickly the prices have risen so decided to stay put. It is not that we are paying too much, it is that there aren't many good deals and, in all honesty, BsAs is expensive and will stay that way as long as real estate is seen as the only good investment opportunity for people here.

No guarantia, it was temp apts. that I found on craigslist, but I looked around, and bargained the price down. I speak decent Spanish and have lived abroad in other places before, so I don't get taken in. In 2008 I rented a really nice place near Botanico for $800/month, one bedroom, new building with pool, everything included. In 2010 I rented a smaller place on Arenales around the corner from El Ateneo for $700-750/month, with the understanding that I was staying longer term (but no contract). Again, renovated apt., everything included. Now during this time there were people I knew on this forum and in real life who were paying well over those prices for stuff that was equal or lower in quality. Some also had to leave big security deposits, which I never had to do.

I'm not saying this is always possible, and when I came for short-term and wanted an apt. right away I also paid somewhat more, but I found that gringos were paying much more than they had to because they didn't know how to haggle or hunt for a good place. This forum also misinforms people somewhat, because a lot of the posters here are inexperienced hunting for apts., and because some people posting here are property owners with a vested interest in presenting a false picture of the rental market. If you don't believe me I can show you an exchange I had here with a dude who threw a giant fit when I mentioned that you should never pay more than a nominal security deposit in Argentina. He later revealed he was renting overpriced crap to tourists in Puerto Madero (a neighborhood I'd never live in).

Anyway thanks for the info.; I will look around some more. I'm bored of BsAs anyway and trying to find a nice picturesque place in the countryside where I can relax, ride horses, do some reading, maybe hunt, etc.

 

[thomasb]

Hey polostar,

I live in Salta (for ~6 years now), so will try and provide some info about the north;

Renting apartments and houses are not cheap here, basically because there's high demand and not much offer. Everything else is a lot cheaper though (as long as you stay away from the worst tourist traps). Even in Salta capital the life is very relaxed compared to the bigger Argentine cities and there are plenty of places in Salta (outside of capital) where you can fish/hunt and live a nice relaxed life. If you live in the country-side you'll probably struggle to spend $1500 a month

A few different places:
http://www.sanlorenz...ar/es/index.php
- 20 minutes from the centre. Where a lot of the upper class have their weekend houses. Touristy.

http://www.campoquij...ar/Turismo.aspx
- 45 minutes from Salta - beside on of the biggest "lakes" in the area, where the guys go fishing (read: drink fernet) in the catamaran on weekends.

http://www.turismosalta.gov.ar/
- General tourist information

http://www.argentina...om.ar/cafayate/
- Cafayate, 3 hours from Salta - wine district.

I was going to make a proper list here but ran out of time, If you give me some more details about what you are looking for I can probably give more info (and example prices for renting and/or other expenses).

Cheers,

-thomas-

 

[jez]

+1
I'm looking myself into the possibility of moving to El Bolson (it's ok, I've partied enough in my life, don't need to go much out now, lol).

I found some chalets to buy in El Bolson, with a piece of land, for under 100.000 pesos. Thinking of buying one while I build my house on a bigger field outside of El Bolson (4.000 square meters cost about 200.000 pesos). So I guess the rental prices are likely affordable as well.

Would be interesting to know what people living in the area of Bariloche/El Bolson think.

But since the time I was there, even the official exchange rate has increased about 50%, so is it really that bad in terms of dollars?
I don't understand what people are spending money on there. Are you guys all overpaying for apts.? Going shopping for shoes, etc.? Maybe I went up to $2000 often but that's because I went out a lot. I ate out literally every day, at nice places; how is it possible that $1500/month is not enough?

Also, any advice on rural locations? In Uruguay you can rent a very nice rural house for next to nothing. I'm wondering if people know of places in Argentina, whether near Bariloche, or Salta, etc., where you can rent a good, comfortable cabin with mountain views and a peaceful atmosphere.

I live in downtown Bariloche. Living out of town is definitely the best option, even better if you have a car for more independence. Groceries are probably about 10 - 20% more expensive here than BA. Bariloche - Llao Llao (25km's) on the bus is about AR$7. Rentals rates/ house,plot purchase examples here: http://abcsur.com.ar/ Not sure of prices outside of Bariloche...but El bolson will be cheaper (although personally I don't like the place) and Villa la Angostura /San Martin much more expensive. If you want somewhere rural between these area then I'm not sure you will get internet,mains electricity/water...?

 

[French jurist]

Hi Jez,

I'm about to visit the Bariloche area (for the first time) to see if I like it there (will celebrate this year a decade spent in Argentina, time to live in a new place).

What don't you like in El Bolson? Is there potential for future development? How are the people, the mentality and such?

Since you know the area, where would you buy a piece of land to buy a house, like an area that would gain a lot in value? (Only thing I need is an high speed internet access for work).

 

[lamarque]

Hi Jez,

I'm about to visit the Bariloche area (for the first time) to see if I like it there (will celebrate this year a decade spent in Argentina, time to live in a new place).

What don't you like in El Bolson? Is there potential for future development? How are the people, the mentality and such?

Since you know the area, where would you buy a piece of land to buy a house, like an area that would gain a lot in value? (Only thing I need is an high speed internet access for work).

El bolson is nice but i prefer Villa La angostura or colonia suiza or bariloche because of the lakes more than nothing, but the one that have better service is Bariloche as is the biguest city, a house around the nahuel huapi will give you incredible view but there are cheaper options in other lakes nearby and cheaper, Frenchie go to cerro campanario and climb it or just take the elevator and from there you can have a view of all bariloche and colonia suiza area is amazing view. Here i pass you a picture 3 month old when i went to bariloche and around. We where thinking in a future get a place there to. A good book to read about moving to that region and build your own house is called "From Paris to La Patagonia" i recomend it.

 

[lamarque]

This is another lake in where the land is much cheapear than the one in the first picture

 

[jez]

Hi Jez,

I'm about to visit the Bariloche area (for the first time) to see if I like it there (will celebrate this year a decade spent in Argentina, time to live in a new place).

What don't you like in El Bolson? Is there potential for future development? How are the people, the mentality and such?

Since you know the area, where would you buy a piece of land to buy a house, like an area that would gain a lot in value? (Only thing I need is an high speed internet access for work).

Perhaps El Bolson is just too quiet/laid back for me... I've been there trekking a few times (http://www.trekelbolson.com) and numerous times to the Sunday market with the girlfriend on a day trip from Bariloche, but probably not enough to get to know the area properly.

For me it seems to lack a central/focal point, yes there is a big plaza with a muddy pond, but there doesn't really seem to be a main street in the way there is in Villa la Anostura. There is no lake in el Bolson unless you head 10kms south to Lago Puelo. If you want the quiet laid back life them maybe its a good option.

I regularly go to Villa la Angostura for lunch and love to walk down the main street (much quainter/less concrete that Bariloche) Puerto manzano & Bahia la Fecha (the start of the Peninsular Quetrihue - bosque Arrayanes). If you are thinking of El Bolson then Bariloche is probably out of the questions as it's so much more touristy, higher crime and more crowded, although there are quieter areas like Peninsular San pedro but I think the prices will be a lot, lot higher than El Bolson.

Although I have never been there I like the idea of living in Esquel, it even has a ski resort..

I think outside the large towns there internet connection is going to be limited...?


I love the mountains, I prefer the higher mountains of Bariloche more than the forested mountains of El Bolson. The mountains in Bariloche are very accessible by public transport, in El Bolson I think there are 2 buses a day, so you have to use taxis if like me you don't have a car.



This is why I like Bariloche:

Cerro Catedral Ski Resort in the summer

Laguna Toncek (refugio Frey)

Refugio Frey

View from Cerro Campanario

 

[Vagrant Violet]

But since the time I was there, even the official exchange rate has increased about 50%, so is it really that bad in terms of dollars?
I don't understand what people are spending money on there. Are you guys all overpaying for apts.? Going shopping for shoes, etc.? Maybe I went up to $2000 often but that's because I went out a lot. I ate out literally every day, at nice places; how is it possible that $1500/month is not enough?

Also, any advice on rural locations? In Uruguay you can rent a very nice rural house for next to nothing. I'm wondering if people know of places in Argentina, whether near Bariloche, or Salta, etc., where you can rent a good, comfortable cabin with mountain views and a peaceful atmosphere.

If you live here long enough at any time (now more than ever), especially if your salary is in Argentine pesos, it's as obvious as the nose on your face... Your income and savings in pesos are worthless. What will 100 pesos buy you now? Not much, but I can tell you that it won't even buy you 90 pesos two months from now. It makes no economic sense whatsover to have a currency that will only dissintegrate in value and help you buy less while prices continue to rise.

Not the best example, but it's like food. We all need it, it's a human need, and it can be something pleasant... but while it's not wise to gorge yourself all the time on food in case you need some of it later on in the near future, it does you no good to keep it around forever, it will only expire become putrid and worthless, even if it's a "good" food. Even if it seems impulsive to buy an outrageously expensive and already overpriced Apple or Samsung product, for example, and even though that won't last forever and ever, it's a much wiser choice.

As far as your pesos go (which no longer have any recognized value outside of Argentina, and barely even here), use 'em or lose 'em.

It's amazing, especially because the value of the Argentine peso becomes more and more inversely disproportional to ANYTHING that can be bought, compounded by the fact that all other forms of currency are off limits. It totally goes against everything I was taught about fiscal responsibilty while growing up, but you'd be a fool to think otherwise in this particular scenario.