This is just not right! Cristina to turn foreign pensions into pesos!

[Crema Americana]

It's all very strange this outrage from expats over the pensioners. How many of these same expats have tried to receive a check from a foreign country denominated in a foreign currency in the US? Were they able to cash the check and receive foreign currency? Probably not!!

The big difference is that the US dollar is actually worth something while the peso is about as good as Monopoly money (which no other countries really want to play with.) Once you are left holding pesos, you have few options for getting another currency... unless it's through the black market. So not only do you have inflation to deal with, but also the phony value of the peso, and the fact that saving in pesos is futile.

Cristina will take their foreign money and give them peanuts for it, promising to take care of all their needs. With carne para todos and the unsanitary public hospitals, what else do they need?

 

[Bajo_cero2]

That s the point, now the only choise is to invest the money instead of keeping under the bed in dollars. This is what she call anticiclicas messures. She rules, it means that we have to do what she rules we like it or not. And she thinks that all this money in pesos, now, is going to be invested and then the economy is going to avoid recession. Right or wrong? In one year we ll know.

In Europe they insist to fight recesion with unemployment, we already tried that following FMI black mailing and 2001 happens, so, we know that any other idea is better.

By the way, I can exchange your pesos for toilet paper

 

[camberiu]

And she thinks that all this money in pesos, now, is going to be invested and then the economy is going to avoid recession. Right or wrong? In one year we ll know.

In Europe they insist to fight recesion with unemployment, we already tried that following FMI black mailing and 2001 happens, so, we know that any other idea is better.

That is funny. Since the 1980s we tried EVERYTHING that she is trying now and we know for a fact that it does not work. The Brazilian population will NOT vote for a politician who proposes those types of heterodox economic measures such as capital/currency controls, debt defaults, money printing and so forth. Even Lula had to publicly renounce those things before the election to have a chance.

We Brazilians have played this song and dance many times before and we know for a fact that this shit she is pulling DOES NOT WORK.

 

[KarlaBA]

That is funny. Since the 1980s we tried EVERYTHING that she is trying now and we know for a fact that it does not work. The Brazilian population will NOT vote for a politician who proposes those types of heterodox economic measures such as capital/currency controls, debt defaults, money printing and so forth. Even Lula had to publicly renounce those things before the election to have a chance.

We Brazilians have played this song and dance many times before and we know for a fact that this shit she is pulling DOES NOT WORK.

Really?? Does Brasil allow a dual currency regime to operate within its borders? I think not. does Brasil not have capital controls? Indeed it does. Does Brasil have one of the most stringent Import Substitution program in the world? Hell yes.
Learn a little more about your country. The secret to Brasil's recent success is three-fold: 1) high international demand for resource commodities, 2) highly educated and skilled mostly ethnically german population in the south, 3) unparalleled consumer credit lending. Agentina is missing two of these items.

 

[camberiu]

Yes, Brazil has "some" capital controls. Yes, Brazil is not a pure market economy.
But Brazil does not have a fixed exchange rate. It does not prevent people from buying foreign currency. It does not openly and contemptibly violates Mercosul import policies. It does not nationalizes foreign companies. It does not have a state owned airline.

I strongly suggest that you read this letter that then candidate Lula wrote to the Brazilian people in 2002 guaranteeing that if elected, he would continue to honor all national and international obligations and contracts held by Brazil. That he would combat inflation, have a balanced budget and maintain an open economy. It is all here:

http://www.democraciasur.com/documentos/BrasilLulaCartaPovoBrasil.htm

He would NOT have been elected if he had not done that. No candiate will be elected in Brazil today if he/she comes with a model similar to CFK. It is impossible in Brazil today for the population to tolerate a 40% a year inflation. We are hitting the 6% mark and people are already bitching about it. Any politician who comes in today proposing pricing controls, political isolation, forced nationalizations and so on will be booted out by voters. That is a fact.

 

[KarlaBA]

No candiate will be elected in Brazil today if he/she comes with a model similar to CFK. It is impossible in Brazil today for the population to tolerate a 40% a year inflation. We are hitting the 6% mark and people are already bitching about it. Any politician who comes in today proposing pricing controls, political isolation, forced nationalizations and so on will be booted out by voters. That is a fact.

So all your argument boils down to is that you think if a country has inflation then all of its economic policies are clearly insane. And that the great wise masses of Brasil would never permit any economic policy if it brought about any inflation whatsoever.

Don't you understand that inflation is a wealth transfer system from the creditors to the debtors? That is all it is. It has some inconveniences on a daily basis, but basically that is all it is. So of course any left leaning politician in a high GNI country like Brasil would have to make statements like Lulu did in order to be permitted to get elected. The rich demanded it. You may think that the poor and middle classes demanded it, but they were only coerced by Globo and the other tenticals of the rich. Brasil, as you must remember, has a majority population of uneducated people - easy to manipulate.

Oh, and by the way, it is the strict capital controls of Brasil which have kept inflation to below 10% these past 8 years or so. In the presence of high resource demand, any country that is highly resource dependent coupled with an open capital account will get itself into a 'Dutch Disease' situation very quickly.

Pedro Calmon, you are not much of a Brasilero as you live and were educated in the US. You are also not much of a economics/finance expert as you work in IT. You are another one of these 'found the holy grail of economics by watching Peter Schiff' types. You are just scratching the surface of the subject. Go to Naked Capitalism for while before you post of these topics. I know you from your days at DoubleClick - not someone who i would take any stock in your ideas about economics.

 

[solerboy]

He would NOT have been elected if he had not done that. No candiate will be elected in Brazil today if he/she comes with a model similar to CFK. That is a fact.

I cannot say that I paid much attention to the election campaign of CFK.

But did she specifically say that.

1. She would prevent all people in Argentina from buying foreign currencies within a week of election.

2. Prevent the import of essential items damaging the economy and in some cases causing a danger to health.

etc, etc, etc


I wonder, were these items in her election manifesto ?

Events sometimes lead governments to take drastic action, but so soon after an election seems a little cynical

 

[camberiu]

I wonder, were these items in her election manifesto ?

Events sometimes lead governments to take drastic action, but so soon after an election seems a little cynical

You hava a good point. I personally think that if Lula and Dilma *could*, they would have implemented policies that were more in line with CFK and Chavez. Historically, this is what their party has always proposed. But the point is that in the Brazil of today, they CANNOT. It is politically impossible. Talking about debt default, currency controls and forced nationalizations today in Brazil is political suicide. That is because, AGAIN, we went through all of this during the 80s and 90s. We played this dance before and it failed. We had our corralito. We had our currency controls. We had our nationalizations. It all failed. Miserably. Voters today have no patience for this kind of thing. That is why Lula had to write the letter. He had to distance himself from those policies to get elected. He had to keep away from those policies to get seats in Congress afterwards. In the Brazil of today, anyone coming in with an economic heterodox proposal will not get elected. Also, there are tons of Brazilian tourists coming here every day. They see how things are here and they are not impressed. They see a mirror the Brazil of the 80s here. They see the same failed policies of our past. This only reinforces the perception in Brazil that the policies adopted by Argentina are not the way to go.

On the other hand, let me make it clear that I do not support the current policies being adopted in Brazil either. Although the administration keeps a facade of "market friendly" policies, behind the scenes and away fromt he public eye, they are adopting measures that are putting Brazil in serious risk. The sad thing is that when the shit hits the fan over there, these politicians will quickly blame "capitalism" when capitalism has nothing to do with it.

 

[Iznogud]

The ABYSMAL differences between both countries are that Brazil has an industry and long term policies. Lacking these last ones, it is safer to gamble than to invest in Argentina. Better odds.

 

[camberiu]

Pedro Calmon, you are not much of a Brasilero as you live and were educated in the US. You are also not much of a economics/finance expert as you work in IT. You are another one of these 'found the holy grail of economics by watching Peter Schiff' types. You are just scratching the surface of the subject. Go to Naked Capitalism for while before you post of these topics. I know you from your days at DoubleClick - not someone who i would take any stock in your ideas about economics.

I was going to write a long response to the first part of your message, but then I saw the second half.
Yes, appealing to ad hominen is really the way to increase your credibility here. So, you checked me on linkedin or something and think you know all about me. Really nice. Obviously you are nothing but a troll. Not falling for your provocation, sorry. You will have to look for someone else to play with.

Thanks for saving me from wasting time writing a long reply.