Tourist visas

[Bajo_cero2]

Not that it is the correct thing to do, but another thing many perma tourists would have to their advantage is that, provided they do not cause any trouble that makes them stand out, the fact that perma tourists often move around during their stay in the country would complicate a possible deportation order (in the rare case that one would be issued, I have personally never seen one) from being carried out.

IE: The only ¨official¨ address Migraciones would have on file for you would be the one listed on your entry documents when you last entered Buenos Aires.

If you originally put down that you were going to stay at the Hilton, and then moved to a loft in Palermo, and are now living in Recoleta (which does happen) you are essentially out of sight out of mind, unless obviously something happens to ¨saltar al radar¨ .

I am not a lawyer, I have just been in Argentina quite a while and have seen lots of different scenarios, and like most things here, a lot of it really is a case by case basis.

No, no, no, nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.

The deportation order allow DNM to arrest you. Then they take you to the judge and if you appeal the judge have 2 options: a) to free you or b) to keep you in Jail.

If you lie about the address or your name, the judge is going to say that you try to evade the justice and then you stay in jail. And I am not talking about the law, I describe what happend in a case I had a consultation a couple of weeks ago.

So, never lie about your address or your name or your passport number.

You just don´t show up at the Edificio 5 and that´s it. Then you win time to find a better solution.

Regards

 

[rrptownley]

What happens if, I really enjoy going to Uruguay every 3 months? Where will my excuse be if ignore that stamp?

 

[Bajo_cero2]

What happens if, I really enjoy going to Uruguay every 3 months? Where will my excuse be if ignore that stamp?

That´s your business. If being properly adviced, you decide to do something different, you are a free adult.

Something different is to jeopardize yourself in the wrong believe that you are doing this for staying "legal" because you got bad advices.

Regards

 

[rrptownley]

That´s your business. If being properly adviced, you decide to do something different, you are a free adult.

Something different is to jeopardize yourself in the wrong believe that you are doing this for staying "legal" because you got bad advices.

Regards

As long as things stay as they are I´ll plough on heedless.
Bajo_cero2, as the forum authority on immigration, has consistently commented on the futility of renewing the tourist visa citing that it is as illegal as overstaying your visa. I would assume that would be topic closed.

In my case, I really enjoy visiting Uruguay several times a year (summer beach hols, friend´s estancias, winter estancia stays, Dorado fishing), between paying the overstay fee or topping every three months, I get many more questions paying the fee than I do passing through immigration regularly.

Either way with the lack of controls as they have been for the last decade up to today, for the non-resident aliens here, you are tolerated no more. Be grateful and don´t ask too many questions.



Parallel topic: Yes, it is nice to have a stable immigration status but it can be difficult for some people to qualify for residency, and citizenship isn't the solution for everybody. Whilst I acknowledge the excellent work of Bajo_cero2 and friends of mine who are close to being granted citizenship, it´s not in everyone´s interest to be so closely tied to Argentina. Especially if Argentina is heading down the Venezuela path.
(I don't know where I'm going to be in a few years, probably still here married or still with my 90 day stamp).

Keep in mind what citizenship is, the legality and implications that can arise. It isn't a sure thing visa. You are crossing the lines and pledging yourself to the interests of a country. If you are not happy with the country´s state, mindset and conditions you should be pausing more for thought. Would you fight for political change inside Argentina? Would you see your children be raised Argentine? Would you go to war for Argentina?

You can keep your passport from your mother country, and run back there when things don't suit you here but I feel Argentina deserves some more promise from people pledging its citizenship so as not to besmirch it.

 

[niceguyeddie]

What if you leave the country of your own free will after the deportation sentence is enacted. Will the deportation sentence become null and void?

Also, how do they serve the first ultimatum, by post?

What is going on is that they started the deportation process.
First you receive an ultimatum of 30 days to apply for a residency.
After this 30 days are over, the deportation sentence is enacted in 90 days.

However, you can regularize yourself meanwhile and until you are notified and the expiration date for appeal is over, it is not enforceable.

It is very important to avoid that they enact this sentence because it include a prohibition for re-entry for no less than 5 years.

 

[Bajo_cero2]

The DNM send you a letter telling you that you have to show up at the Edificio 5. They give you 30 days to apply for a residency. In this stage you are notified when the letter arrived to your address no matter if you are there or not.

[FONT=&quot]ARTICULO 61. - Al constatar la irregularidad de la permanencia de un extranjero en el país, y atendiendo a las circunstancias de profesión del extranjero, su parentesco con nacionales argentinos, el plazo de permanencia acreditado y demás condiciones personales y sociales, la Dirección Nacional de Migraciones deberá conminarlo a regularizar su situación en el plazo perentorio que fije para tal efecto, bajo apercibimiento de decretar su expulsión. Vencido el plazo sin que se regularice la situación, la Dirección Nacional de Migraciones decretará su expulsión con efecto suspensivo y dará intervención y actuará como parte ante el Juez o Tribunal con competencia en la materia, a efectos de la revisión de la decisión administrativa de expulsión.[/FONT]

In this stage you are notified when the letter arrived to your address no matter if you are there or not.

[FONT=&quot]ARTICULO 54. - Los extranjeros mantendrán actualizados ante la Dirección Nacional de Migraciones, por la vía y plazos que se indique en la reglamentación, los datos referidos a su domicilio, en donde se considerarán válidas todas las notificaciones.[/FONT]

90 days later the deportation order is enacted but then, the notification has to be reliable. It means that you have to sign that you get it. So, if you don´t show up at Edificio 5 you don´t get notified unless they send an agent to notify at your address.
The strategy of Chinese immigrant is to move once a year so they don´t get notified.

[FONT=&quot]ARTICULO 75. - Podrán ser objeto de Recurso de Reconsideración los actos administrativos que resuelvan sobre las cuestiones enumeradas precedentemente.
Dicho recurso se interpondrá contra los actos dictados por la Dirección Nacional de Migraciones y serán resueltos por ésta.
En el caso de que el acto hubiese sido dictado por autoridad delegada, ésta será quien resuelva, sin perjuicio del derecho de avocación de la mencionada Dirección, salvo que la delegación hubiere cesado al tiempo de deducirse el recurso, supuesto en el cual resolverá el delegante.
El Recurso de Reconsideración deberá deducirse dentro de los diez (10) días hábiles de la notificación fehaciente del acto y ante el mismo órgano que lo dictó.[/FONT]

Regards

 

[niceguyeddie]

And if you leave the country of your own free will after the deportation sentence is enacted. Will the deportation sentence become null and void? Will you be able to enter again in say 3 months time?

Not that I am in this situation, just curious.

 

[Bajo_cero2]

Keep in mind what citizenship is, the legality and implications that can arise. It isn't a sure thing visa. You are crossing the lines and pledging yourself to the interests of a country. If you are not happy with the country´s state, mindset and conditions you should be pausing more for thought. Would you fight for political change inside Argentina? Would you see your children be raised Argentine? Would you go to war for Argentina?

You can keep your passport from your mother country, and run back there when things don't suit you here but I feel Argentina deserves some more promise from people pledging its citizenship so as not to besmirch it.

To have the citizenship of the country where you live is the best strategy to get the best legal protection for you and your family in that country.

Regarding the feelings for the flag, it is better to leave it for soccer teams and its colours.

Argentina has few duties regarding citizenship. Probably the only one is to vote. Conscription has been abolished and we have enough ammo for 2 days of war.

Some other countries are more complicated regarding war and conscription. Israel or the US are good examples about that.

The US also have the issues about taxation.

Regards

 

[Bajo_cero2]

And if you leave the country of your own free will after the deportation sentence is enacted. Will the deportation sentence become null and void? Will you be able to enter again in say 3 months time?

No. The deportation order includes a ban for coming back. If you leave by your own will you just avoid to be arrested. As you see in the deportation order enacted after decree 616/2010 that I quote below, it is ordered to arrest this person and there is a restriction to re entry for 5 years.

 

[lucha54]

Bajo_Cero you're the best!! You are such a wealth of legitimate information! THANKS!