Tourist visas

[jimdepalermo]

This topic gets raised and argued on this forum every few months with the same arguments and stories of friends of friends and "I know someone who said..."

I've been here for 6 years now and know lots of people who live here without legal residency. Some do the new-visa routine and visit UY every few months. Others just pay fines when they overstay. I know only one person who ever had trouble, and every second-hand story I've tried to verify has turned out to be a misunderstanding, an exaggeration, or a 4th-hand repeat that couldn't be verified.

The person I know who actually received a 30-day exit notice had been taking the slow boat from Tigre to Carmelo every 90 days for 8 years. He had left the country for more than a few hours only once or twice during all this time. Carmelo is a tiny port with only a couple of agents, and he got to know them over the years. My friend drinks a good bit and tended to spend his waiting time in a bar in Carmelo. When he returned to the pier one afternoon tipsy and tried to joke with the agents about the visa nuisance, one of them was in a bad mood and stamped a 30-day notice in his passport. He qualified for residency but hadn't wanted to deal with the bureaucracy. Faced with the notice, he did it, and now he's legal.

I posted a personal story in another thread on the same topic that I'll repeat here. A good friend who lives here but travels for business all the time found himself here for 3 months with no need to travel for another month. He decided to go to Migraciones for a prórroga rather than traveling to UY, and he asked me to go along for support since I was familiar with the setup there from my years going through temp to permanent residency.

He presented his documents, paid the fee, and waited while everyone who arrived later was called to get their documents and leave. I asked his agent if there was a problem, and she replied that a supervisor would call him shortly.

Eventually, near closing time, the supervisor showed up with an 8-page computer listing showing years of entries and exits. "How do you explain all these entries to Argentina?" she asked sternly. Before my friend could panic, I replied that his work requires him to travel constantly, that he loves Argentina and Argentines, and that he owns property here where he likes to spend his down time.

She smiled, stamped his passport "Prórroga Final - 90 días." I asked why "final," and she replied that all extensions are final, since the law permits only one extension of a tourist visa, so he would need to leave the country within the next 90 days. I asked if there would be any problem when he returned to AR the next time. She shrugged her shoulders and said she didn't know why there would be any problem. And when he returned from his next trip, there wasn't any problem at Ezeiza.

 

[Bajo_cero2]

Especially because when I did pay for an extended visa in migraccion earlier this year, the man at the desk told me the process took longer then usual because they noticed that I've been Back and forth here for so many years. But all he told me is that one day they may give me a warning that I must apply for a residency to keep living here this long! But now I'm freaked out to leave in 2 weeks. We are wondering if we should get married before I go although I really wanted to wait for the wedding in dec! One of my questions is: if they do tell me that I'm not allowed back in but me and my boyfriend get married after, say in Uruguay or Canada, will I be allowed in again?

You shouldn´t complain for finding proper legal advice. I know that ignorance is a bliss but know you know.

What is going on is that they started the deportation process.
First you receive an ultimatum of 30 days to apply for a residency.
After this 30 days are over, the deportation sentence is enacted in 90 days.

However, you can regularize yourself meanwhile and until you are notified and the expiration date for appeal is over, it is not enforceable.

It is very important to avoid that they enact this sentence because it include a prohibition for re-entry for no less than 5 years.

So, just avoid to get notified until you marry.

They should enforce or deny your re-entry until the sentence´s appeal deadline is over.

Then, you marry in December and then you apply for permanent residency and the deportation order should fall.

If it doesn´t happend, you can apply for citizenship.

Regards

 

[YanquiGallego]

Not that it is the correct thing to do, but another thing many perma tourists would have to their advantage is that, provided they do not cause any trouble that makes them stand out, the fact that perma tourists often move around during their stay in the country would complicate a possible deportation order (in the rare case that one would be issued, I have personally never seen one) from being carried out.

IE: The only ¨official¨ address Migraciones would have on file for you would be the one listed on your entry documents when you last entered Buenos Aires.

If you originally put down that you were going to stay at the Hilton, and then moved to a loft in Palermo, and are now living in Recoleta (which does happen) you are essentially out of sight out of mind, unless obviously something happens to ¨saltar al radar¨ .

I am not a lawyer, I have just been in Argentina quite a while and have seen lots of different scenarios, and like most things here, a lot of it really is a case by case basis.

 

[surfing]

I'm suprised nobody mentioned renewing your passport to have a clean slate to work with. You could tear the back cover go to the embassy and get a new one in a few days. Granted there is a cost in dollars and time. But it would be like a clean slate.

I have heard that they are putting in thumb print scanners at EZE and buquebus for tourists in place of the immigration forms.

I don't know much for sure but I do know that deliberately defacing your passport with the specific intent of defrauding (and that it what you propose) two national governments is something a LOT more serious than overstaying a tourist visa. Therefore it presents a whole lot more potential to cause you serious trouble on multiple fronts. In other words: A REALLY REALLY BAD IDEA (that would not work anyway since everything is already in the computer systems).

 

[Bajo_cero2]

The 180 days is not clear to me. It doesn't say 180 days in one year... just maximum 180 days at a time (90 tourist + 90 extension.) But how many trips can you make to Argentina in a year? At what point are you considered "irregular" if the way the law is written (and so far enforced) seems like you can enter and leave at will? Paying the corresponding fines, of course. I didn't read anything about a minimum number of days you must be out of the country before you can re-enter on a tourist visa. I suppose it is the Colonia runs that are the most suspicious since that's the preferred method of "renewing" a visa.

Well, the law uses the verb "to denaturalize".

It means that if you are a businessman and you travel many times to Argentina, it is ok.

To denaturalize a tourist visa means to have it while you are an immigrant. There is not such a thing as a perma-tourist.

To go to Colonia every 90 days is the most obvious way of denaturalize a tourist visa. That´s why it is so stupid.

The whole strategy is regarding to avoid the DNM give you a warning because 30 days after that the deportation procedure begins and 90 days after the deportation order is enacted.

The fact that you don´t know what is going on with your file at DNM doesn´t mean that everything is ok. You might have a deportation order enacted and they just need to notify you. I have many cases like that, a few of them of perma-tourist.

I realized about the deportation orders on the citizenship case when DNM replied the standard report the judge sent.

The worst possible mistake is to renew the visa at DNM. The second to apply for a visa. The third to do the Colonia run.

It just seems counter-intuitive that doing nothing and simply overstaying is a better option than "renewing" your visa through a Colonia visit... though that seems to be the case.

Well, that´s why I explained that the confusion is regarding cultural misunderstandings. We have a unique Constitutional Law regarding immigration. It was designed for attracting 100.000.000 immigrants. So, to behave here trying to use the tricks that usually works with other´s countries laws that try to expel foreigners, is a mistake.

It is also counter-intuitive that the earth spins around the sun.

Here you have rights, so, it makes no sense to behave like a criminal who tries to cheat the law. I dedicate a chapter to explain federal judges what the "Colonia run" is (and why the solicitor have 2.000.000 stamps) because they don´t understand why they do such a stupid thing.

Regards

 

[Bajo_cero2]

I'm suprised nobody mentioned renewing your passport to have a clean slate to work with. You could tear the back cover go to the embassy and get a new one in a few days. Granted there is a cost in dollars and time. But it would be like a clean slate.

I have heard that they are putting in thumb print scanners at EZE and buquebus for tourists in place of the immigration forms.

There is a report called "movimientos migratorios" where they have allllllllllllll your entries and exits. Changing the passport change nothing because it also contains birthday and parents name when they have this info.

Regards

 

[shoush]

You shouldn´t complain for finding proper legal advice. I know that ignorance is a bliss but know you know.

What is going on is that they started the deportation process.
First you receive an ultimatum of 30 days to apply for a residency.
After this 30 days are over, the deportation sentence is enacted in 90 days.

However, you can regularize yourself meanwhile and until you are notified and the expiration date for appeal is over, it is not enforceable.

It is very important to avoid that they enact this sentence because it include a prohibition for re-entry for no less than 5 years.

So, just avoid to get notified until you marry.

They should enforce or deny your re-entry until the sentence´s appeal deadline is over.

Then, you marry in December and then you apply for permanent residency and the deportation order should fall.

If it doesn´t happend, you can apply for citizenship.

Regards

Thank You for your advice but I didn't fully anderstand what I should do to avoid this deportation process? Can you please explain it again and pretend that you are explaining it to say, a 5 year old! you seem to really know what your talking about but want to make sure I understand the route I should take! Thank you

 

[nicoenarg]

and pretend that you are explaining it to say, a 5 year old!

First thing I would then ask is, do your parents know you're here?

 

[shoush]

Hehe! I'm just not the best with all these legal terms!

 

[Amargo]

I dedicate a chapter to explain federal judges what the "Colonia run" is (and why the solicitor have 2.000.000 stamps) because they don´t understand why they do such a stupid thing.

Haha, this is priceless

Probably it is something created by the Uruguayan secret services, in order to get USD into the country.