Uba: How Free Is Too Free ?

[Matiasba]

(no matter what lied-about and misunderstood numbers Counting Matias throws around)?

I knew you wouldnt like the facts. But the facts are the facts, you must assume them. Check out the numbers I put, Serioulsy, a quick google search. And voilá.

 

[Dada]

I wonder, how many of you guys are actually studying here??? With all due respect to your opinions.

I'm a student here. To be honest (and yes, I'm still in my honeymoon phase, so no need to take me too seriously), I'm thrilled by the level of teachings my school provides. It's not free, we all pay a symbolic fee. Really symbolic, considering the fact our teachers are accomplished writers who absolutely don't need the job to survive. They all teach us because they genuinely want to give back what they were once given, perhaps to even help form the next Borges if they're lucky. "My" school provides no degrees or other credentials, apart from great network contacts, which mean a lot to a writer. It just teaches, pure gold in my humble opinion. It's completely up to you what you make of it.

I can't speak on behalf of other schools which I have no idea about. Everyone can be a politician after 3 beers. I'm just deeply thankful for what I'm getting. The government definitely has no hand in what we're being taught. Yet I'm glad it's possible.

 

[nikad]

Nikad, I know lots of people linked to superior education, not only with UBA, but with other universities from Conurbano (Quilmes, San Martin, General Sarmiento). They all talked me about the great changes in those uniersities. Also, in 2013 a professor of mine told me that in the university they taught, -cant remember which one but I think it was General Sarmiento in San Miguel- they got millions and millions of dollars of budget, so they had a great problem -dont know what to do with the money. In fact, that money came, entirely,100% from Megaminería. She told me that there was a law, or a decree or something that said the entire money from megamineria went to superior education.

And with primary and secondary education, we have a very stable scenario, compared to what this used to be.

Primary and High School are deficient to say the least. To say that teachers are not going on strike, doesn't mean that it is a good level education. What good does it make " the poor " to have free access to high school if they lack the most basic knowledge to attend? I don't understand why they want to bring the general level down? Everything is lowered and measured to be mediocre. People who cannot afford private school for their children are trapped in a perverse system. My grandmother, she is currently 88 years old, did not attend high school, she only finished elementary ( it was fairly common back in those days ) and I can assure you that her reading comprehension level and math level is higher than that of a university student. Considering how fast things have changed and evolved and how much competitive the job market is - worldwide - I find it insulting to take pride in the current education system.

 

[nikad]

I wonder, how many of you guys are actually studying here??? With all due respect to your opinions.

I'm a student here. To be honest (and yes, I'm still in my honeymoon phase, so no need to take me too seriously), I'm thrilled by the level of teachings my school provides. It's not free, we all pay a symbolic fee. Really symbolic, considering the fact our teachers are accomplished writers who absolutely don't need the job to survive. They all teach us because they genuinely want to give back what they were once given, perhaps to even help form the next Borges if they're lucky. "My" school provides no degrees or other credentials, apart from great network contacts, which mean a lot to a writer. It just teaches, pure gold in my humble opinion. It's completely up to you what you make of it.

I can't speak on behalf of other schools which I have no idea about. Everyone can be a politician after 3 beers. I'm just deeply thankful for what I'm getting. The government definitely has no hand in what we're being taught. Yet I'm glad it's possible.

We are talking about public education, not private Where are you currently studying?

 

[Noesdeayer]

Reading today's La Nación I see where a group of professors from La Plata U.have signed a letter of support for the K candidates The one college (facultad) who didn't sign was La Facultad de Ciencias Medicas. Hmm Maybe they remember the early1980s when some announcements in the Clarín and La Nación profesional search sections for medicos read," No de los años de Flor de Ceibo 1973 al '75".The years of heaviest Peronist politization and favoritism in the UBA

 

[Noesdeayer]

Reading today's La Nación I see where a group of professors from La Plata U.have signed a letter of support for the K candidates The one college (facultad) who didn't sign was La Facultad de Ciencias Medicas. Hmm Maybe they remember the early1980s when some announcements in the Clarín and La Nación profesional search sections for medicos read," No de los años de Flor de Ceibo 1973 al '75".The years of heaviest Peronist politization and favoritism in the UBA

 

[ElQueso]

I knew you wouldnt like the facts. But the facts are the facts, you must assume them. Check out the numbers I put, Serioulsy, a quick google search. And voilá.

What facts did you present? That the government is spending more money on education? I've read the same thing. I've also read INDEC talking about 15% inflation while I watch prices vary significantly more than that and read others who state the inflation is more like 30%. Unlike you, I'm not a wide-eyed believer of anything the government tells us.

So what if they say they are spending more money on education? How much of that goes to their cronies? How much is ill-spent because whatever they're spending it on doesn't do any good? How much of that were the crappy computers they gave the kids?

The government also tells us they have reduced the number of people in poverty, yet my friends who live in poverty certainly don't see it that way, as things have become harder and harder for them.

I, personally, don't trust anything that comes out of this government. And you trust everything they say as pure "fact".

I've asked you before if you have any kids going through the school system, particularly public school, and I have yet to get an answer. No matter what the government says, my experience here says that at least secondary schools here have serious problems (both public and private, at least mid-level and below) and those I klnow directly who have kids in public schools (those that can't get into the "elite" national public schools, that is) tell me horrible things.

 

[Matiasba]

Primary and High School are deficient to say the least. To say that teachers are not going on strike, doesn't mean that it is a good level education. What good does it make " the poor " to have free access to high school if they lack the most basic knowledge to attend? I don't understand why they want to bring the general level down? Everything is lowered and measured to be mediocre. People who cannot afford private school for their children are trapped in a perverse system. My grandmother, she is currently 88 years old, did not attend high school, she only finished elementary ( it was fairly common back in those days ) and I can assure you that her reading comprehension level and math level is higher than that of a university student. Considering how fast things have changed and evolved and how much competitive the job market is - worldwide - I find it insulting to take pride in the current education system.

I agree the public level of education can be very poor, extremely bad. I know there are schools in poor areas of conurbano that people in 5th year of high school barely know how to read (!). And I dont even know of a school in Chaco, it could perfectly be like that. But then, you have Nacional Buenos Aires, the best high school of the country (where btw you have exams to enter).

My point is not that public education (primary and secondary, universities are another thing) is fine. My point is that they re better than for at least 30 years back. And the (almost none) social protest and different kind of political participation from teachers (remember carpa blanca?) its quite an indicator.

 

[Matiasba]

What facts did you present? That the government is spending more money on education? I've read the same thing. I've also read INDEC talking about 15% inflation while I watch prices vary significantly more than that and read others who state the inflation is more like 30%. Unlike you, I'm not a wide-eyed believer of anything the government tells us.

So what if they say they are spending more money on education? How much of that goes to their cronies? How much is ill-spent because whatever they're spending it on doesn't do any good? How much of that were the crappy computers they gave the kids?

The government also tells us they have reduced the number of people in poverty, yet my friends who live in poverty certainly don't see it that way, as things have become harder and harder for them.

I, personally, don't trust anything that comes out of this government. And you trust everything they say as pure "fact".

I've asked you before if you have any kids going through the school system, particularly public school, and I have yet to get an answer. No matter what the government says, my experience here says that at least secondary schools here have serious problems (both public and private, at least mid-level and below) and those I klnow directly who have kids in public schools (those that can't get into the "elite" national public schools, that is) tell me horrible things.

I already talked of different people I know involved in public teaching, and how different their experience is during these K years than before.
I know there is corruption (at any level, with any budget --but please, dont think that may change with Macri, thats naive to say the less)... I dont think they stole aaaaallll the money, they can keep some, they can transfer, they can steal, etc, but thats a tiny percentage compared to the big, enormous number they assigned to education.

And they did assign that number to education, I heard politicians from oposicion recognising that fact, and talking up of what they did with education in this country. i never heard the contrary, like I did with Mauri. You think that with the great number of channels, radios, etc, with the great political power the anti Ks and oposition from other parties, the 2 greatest newspapers, etc, would not have been easy to denounce the same for Cristina?

 

[thorsten]

It doesn't matter if the money is spend or not (at least if we are talking about the quality of education and not a corruption case), what matters is whether the situation is improving or not. Now you can "talk to a few people" and get a subjective statement (which teacher would say they suck in teaching?) or you could look at some available data like the PISA studies. But if you do the latter, you won't see 1) that the secondary education is good (Argentina scored in position 59 of the 65 OECD countries in the last test 2012), or 2) that it improved (there is no improvement visible compared to the years before, and the results are bad across good/bad students and whether we talk about science, math or reading).